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Old 19-08-2013, 12:41   #76
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Re: Twenty Knots

Wind is Money
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Old 19-08-2013, 12:43   #77
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Re: Twenty Knots

In this case, wind is costing them money!

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Old 19-08-2013, 13:19   #78
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No matter what you say about these boats the average person surely is going to look at a yacht race that won't race if there is any wind as a bunch of pansies.
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Old 19-08-2013, 13:26   #79
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Re: Twenty Knots

No more than the average person would look at a F1 race that won't race in the rain or other adverse environment.

20kts is not exactly no wind. Relatively low wind limits in the AC programs compared to other race programs have been around for many years.

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Old 19-08-2013, 13:28   #80
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Re: Twenty Knots

Australia 1 did break in half in 20 knots of breeze in the 1995 America's Cup, but the more amazing thing was that their second slower boat was able to beat the until then undefeated New Zealand Boat Black Magic for it's only loss in the entire regatta.

There were 44 tacks in the first leg alone. Now the guy with the red socks was not aboard the New Zealand Boat that day, but a loss is still a loss. John Bertrand was onboard the Australian boat though, but I don't know what his job was that day.

Most exciting race I ever saw..........
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Old 19-08-2013, 13:31   #81
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Re: Twenty Knots

In the early days of AC racing, one of the rules was that challengers had to arrive on their own bottoms from wherever they were built. (Talk about a home court advantage!)

Reinstatement of that rule would make for interesting changes in the boats racing.

As for my opinion of the AC farce... well, the boats are fascinating structures, the crews are skilled and daring, but the racing is boring. The 45's were far more interesting to me as a spectator because there were really races.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 19-08-2013, 14:04   #82
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
The 45's were far more interesting to me as a spectator because there were really races.

Cheers,

Jim
I don't agree that the AC72 are boring, but I do agree that the AC45's were more exciting. But that was match racing, which I always find more exciting. The America's Cup has never been match racing.

Boring to me is watching slow boats on TV running 18 mile courses 10-15 miles offshore. Fast boats on short courses right in front of audiences of common people are better for me.

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Old 19-08-2013, 14:11   #83
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Re: Twenty Knots

BTW, is all the negativity due to these being catamarans? If they were mono's reaching these speeds (possibly also on foils like moths, etc) with the same penalty rule set and short courses and not using spinnakers, etc, would the opinions be different?

Seems like many are equating "real" sailing with monos, but I assure you that the next mono AC race will be closer to this current AC program than those AC races of old.

If you think differently, then you have not been paying attention to the current mono racing world.

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Old 19-08-2013, 14:33   #84
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Re: Twenty Knots

i really think the question that needs to be asked here is...

what would the Flyin Hawaiian do in 20 knts of wind and / or is the FH a real sail boat / wing boat if HR spent $311.00 on sheetrock screws?

-steve
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Old 19-08-2013, 14:33   #85
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Re: Twenty knots

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Oh yeah, lets not forget that in Race #1 of the LV finals two of the grinders from the winning boat finished the race in a rescue boat after the wingboat did a bow dip that would have been a pitchpole had they not been sandbagging at that point because the other boat had already dropped out after they couldn't control their daggerboards.

The rule here seems to be: never go sailing without a rescue boat to follow you around.

Impressive.
I just caught this. Sheesh, you will twist anything to advance your agenda. That boat very well could have pitch-poled (although doubtful given the maneuver it was making at the time), but the reason it did not had nothing to do with them "sandbagging".

The boat buried its bows doing 40kts! Do you think that was sandbagging? These boats can't really "sandbag" if they wanted without simply stalling and floating around at speeds that would embarrass them.

IF they were sandbagging, they sure were piss-poor at it because they did a lot of damage and had the real potential of killing themselves in the process.

Sure, they were not pushing as hard as they would have with another boat on their tail, but the margin of "slack" was extremely small and was more along the line of taking their time during difficult maneuvers. The linear speeds they were running were the same.

Have you ever beared off on a high-speed sailboat? Given your understanding of these, I doubt it. There is a very dangerous envelope to work through during the bear-off where forces change rapidly and things can go wrong very quickly. This is where they stuffed their bows. High speed mono's also have this problem and broken masts and broached boats result there also.

ALL past AC races had chase boats and rescue boats following them around.

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Old 19-08-2013, 14:33   #86
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by EveningTide View Post
Small boats reef sooner. 1st reef in main at 15 knots apparent. Once crossed SF Bay close-hauled into 27 knots app with staysail and 2nd in the main. Just right- waves only 3 feet- smooth compared to the ocean.
Back to the OP!!!

We have what we call our April to September single reef in the main with an 85% jib. Works just great for our boat. Second reef when out in the ocen for that windspeed.

20 knots is a light afternoon breeze for us here. For my friends with the same boat back east, they'd probably think it was too windy.

Interesting comments about the racing. I, too, am disappointed that there are no tacking duels.

But the crash & burn the other day was spectacular, but I do miss "crew & sailing/tactical mistakes" rather than "gear failure" as the reason to win or lose, for whatever reason the gear may break, which on these monsters so far has been always!

Sure gear fails on other boats, too, and we were fortunate in one year to win the top spot because our chief competitor lost his traveler. Why? 'Cuz he didn't read the warning I posted years ago about through bolting his track!
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Old 19-08-2013, 14:36   #87
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Re: Twenty Knots

The average person doesn't even know there IS a sailboat race.
I think these boats are awesome, but I could care less who wins,
the money spent is just stupid. Most racing is just stupid.
I was watching NHRA top fuel yesterday for a bit, even being a drag racer,
I don't get why people go to watch those 3.8 second races,
although they are awesome 'cars'. Check out this video, there is even a OZzy on there..

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Old 19-08-2013, 14:38   #88
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Once again sigh a sailing breeze that is to much for elite sailors on modern boats to sail in. Looked like a nice breeze too. Maybe they should just take the wings off and put outboards on the boats after all a boat that isn't allowed to sail in 19 knots of breeze is hardly a yacht is it.
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Old 19-08-2013, 14:52   #89
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Re: Twenty Knots

And once again, you miss the point about wind speed. It is not about wind speed, it is about forces on the boat at sailing speeds.

The boats you would go out in 20kts of wind are not sailing at 50kts.

Would you take those same boats out in 70kts?

Would you be happy watching heavy full-keeled slugs lumbering along in a good 35kt wind?

Would you unreasonably and ignorantly demand 50kt boats in 35kt winds?

Did you watch previous mono AC races where the wind limit was 20kts? Did you pour derision on them?

Everything in racing has to be defined by design limits - wind speed, boat speed, sea condition, etc. Describe those you would find to lead to an interesting AC race.

I didn't know "yacht" was defined by wind speeds.

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Old 19-08-2013, 14:54   #90
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Re: Twenty Knots

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