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Old 21-09-2013, 15:14   #616
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
lets see
- can't sail if it rains
- can't sail if there is wind > 18 kts
- can't sail if the wind is too soft <= 10 kts
- can't sail if the wind is not where they want it

can't can't can't
It does not make it look attractive to the wider audience does it?

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Old 21-09-2013, 15:26   #617
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by SVNeko View Post
Yes, I agree this is much more exciting racing. But I am not sure what you say is correct and if I had the faster reaching boat I might make some noise here. Looking at the sailing instructions it lays out a course, including marks on a chart of SF bay. It does call them windward, leeward marks, etc. But I don't think this is enough of a shift to change that. So I don't see anything in the rules that allows for the delay. I don't even see any jury discretion about it. Maybe there is something in the protocols that I am missing.
I am just guessing here, but I think the shift is enough that they cannot make a windward leg out of the present course boundaries. Without windward and running legs, the whole race just becomes a drag race with straight line runs to the marks. I don't want that.

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Old 21-09-2013, 15:28   #618
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Re: Twenty Knots

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
lets see
- can't sail if it rains
- can't sail if there is wind > 18 kts
- can't sail if the wind is too soft <= 10 kts
- can't sail if the wind is not where they want it

can't can't can't
Three of those four conditions were in place, and met, in previous mono AC series (I don't know about the remaining one).

Catamarans and Ellison - we got it monkey.

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Old 21-09-2013, 15:30   #619
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
I am just guessing here, but I think the shift is enough that they cannot make a windward leg out of the present course boundaries. Without windward and running legs, the whole race just becomes a drag race with straight line runs to the marks. I don't want that.
Yea, me neither, but we have been talking here about rules being rules. Why not waive the 40 min limit to allow ETNZ to finish if they can waive the start times? However, I just heard Jobson say that both teams agreed they didn't want to race if the wind and direction was not right. So maybe no one will squawk, which seems a welcome relief from AC's of old which seemed to be fought in the court room more than on the race course. All good, of course, but trying to understand what is going on here.
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Old 21-09-2013, 15:31   #620
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Re: Twenty Knots

At least for the rule dominated conditions, we are watching the fastest sailboats for said conditions. You will never see the below description in regards to these boats.......

"I remember being in Boston, going out to the start of a big open 60 race, leaving the dock with all the press people and photographers aboard, and getting a puff of wind, and watching the boat jump to 19 knots. The race started, and we gave chase to the fleet, immediately passing all of them. The sailors aboard those open 60's just sort of blankly stared as we went flying past...


The above is a ad for the selling of Virgin Fire, a cruising tri in BVI.
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Old 21-09-2013, 15:32   #621
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Now what?! They can't race because the winds are in the wrong direction? Can't reach up and back? Wouldn't be what the AC is all about?

All these criteria have created a very narrow window of opportunity for these races. I would think different wind speeds and directions would produce a more rounded competition and more accurately reflect which team had the best sailors.
I think everyone has an acute understanding of how purpose-built these boats are. But between the winds and the rules they sure are pushing the limits aren't they?
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Old 21-09-2013, 15:36   #622
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Re: Twenty Knots

No racing today -- wind is still from the wrong direction.

Try to remember that the rules aren't set for the convenience of the spectators.
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Old 21-09-2013, 15:39   #623
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Re: Twenty Knots

By the way, if you can't get local TV coverage, you still might be able to watch it on YouTube even if it's blocked for your region. I am using the "Hola" plug-in for my web browser, which sneaks around the region-blocking.
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Old 21-09-2013, 15:42   #624
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
lets see
- can't sail if it rains
- can't sail if there is wind > 18 kts
- can't sail if the wind is too soft <= 10 kts
- can't sail if the wind is not where they want it

can't can't can't
Yet I must wonder, how long before foils, et al make a stronger showing in production boats. I recall the winged keel following that years AC. Heck, I wonder if already someone hasn't made a bona fide offer to race one of these boats in a Transpac. Light air does exist that entire route at certain times of the year. It would be a hoot to fly a hull for 800-1,600 miles on one tack in an 8-12 kt breeze.
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Old 21-09-2013, 15:47   #625
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by SVNeko View Post
Yea, me neither, but we have been talking here about rules being rules. Why not waive the 40 min limit to allow ETNZ to finish if they can waive the start times? However, I just heard Jobson say that both teams agreed they didn't want to race if the wind and direction was not right. So maybe no one will squawk, which seems a welcome relief from AC's of old which seemed to be fought in the court room more than on the race course. All good, of course, but trying to understand what is going on here.
Rightly so! As much as the complaining about this or that in this AC series, it is a darn sight better than the cup fought over in the courtroom.

For the record, after watching the entire series to date, my understanding of the boats and the governing rules has grown quite a bit. I dare say I am fond of these boats. My only complaint is I wish Spit would sail like a cat skipper. He seems to be straight from the Ted school of racing.
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Old 21-09-2013, 15:53   #626
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Re: Twenty Knots

I think Ken put it best: 'if you do not have anything nice to say, don't say anything'.

...

b.
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Old 21-09-2013, 16:20   #627
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Re: Twenty Knots

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I think Ken put it best: 'if you do not have anything nice to say, don't say anything'.

...

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Mothers have counseled that since the beginning of time. Since when do sons listen to their mothers?
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Old 21-09-2013, 16:24   #628
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Re: Twenty Knots

I posted earlier about the rain here. It is HIGHLY UNUSUAL to have this kind of weather here in September. We had one inch of rain in one hour, I'm pretty sure it's a record. For those of you with inquiring minds who like to learn and know: What happened is that the normal high pressure moved down (south) allowing a big cell of nasty weather through from the north. When that happens, the wind shifts to the south because winds are counterclockwise in low pressure systems. The system has moved through, and the sun is beginning to shine again. The a's baseball game was delayed by two hours. Once fronts like this move out, and it was, again, rare for this time of year usually doesn't happen until late October, the winds come from the NW and perhaps could set up from the west in an afternoon breeze for tomorrows racing.

Thought some facts would help.
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Old 21-09-2013, 17:06   #629
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Re: Twenty Knots

Hey folks. Several posts have been deleted because they contained nothing more than bickering and insults.

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Old 21-09-2013, 17:16   #630
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by Richard5 View Post
Yet I must wonder, how long before foils, et al make a stronger showing in production boats. I recall the winged keel following that years AC. Heck, I wonder if already someone hasn't made a bona fide offer to race one of these boats in a Transpac. Light air does exist that entire route at certain times of the year. It would be a hoot to fly a hull for 800-1,600 miles on one tack in an 8-12 kt breeze.
Here is a home-builder who is coming up to speed: Premières sorties avec les foils

Here is a commercial design/build going into production: California 45 foiling catamaran | The Daily Sail

But I don't think you will really see production cruising boats adopting foils - they will stay in the racing arena, if they become popular at all. Cruising boats carry two much weight and experience too much varying weather for varying times.

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