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Old 21-09-2013, 11:13   #601
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
Sure it's standard. I'll try and find it in another catamaran racing event.
Thomm, I can understand your excitement being a cat racer during these America's Cup races, and that probably results in these reading comprehension issues. But you should not assume that all posters on this forum are simple cruisers ignorant about sailboat racing. In fact, I would bet most have raced in some form or fashion and a lot got their start in sailing through racing (as I did on Lasers and J24s). The point I was making was that a 40 minute time limit is not standard. I think its fair to say that everyone posting here knows that some sort of time limit is normal. Saying that a 40 minute limit for these boats is too short does not mean that there should be no time limit at all. Nor by saying that a 40 minute limit is not standard (like a 60 minute football game or a 9 inning baseball game is) am I saying that time limits themselves are not a normal element in racing instructions.
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Old 21-09-2013, 12:00   #602
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Re: Twenty Knots

The juxtaposition of the minimum wind limit of 3 knots and the time limit of 40 minutes is interesting. During the abandoned race the winds ranged from about 6 to over ten at times and the Kiwis were still several minutes from finishing when the time ran out. This makes the 40 minutes seem strangely short when a start would be allowed at just over 3 knots.

Perhaps it has something to do with TV schedules... who knows?

But to criticize the RC for abandoning is simply silly... they had no choice in the matter.

Hoping for some more exciting racing today with the Kiwis finally getting the necessary win.

Oh... I was astonished at the speed of turn that Oracle demonstrated in the port/starboard confrontation. I had no idea that these boats could do that!

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 21-09-2013, 12:24   #603
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Re: Twenty Knots

"It's raining, it's pouring" here now.
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Old 21-09-2013, 12:55   #604
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by SVNeko View Post
Thomm, I can understand your excitement being a cat racer during these America's Cup races, and that probably results in these reading comprehension issues. But you should not assume that all posters on this forum are simple cruisers ignorant about sailboat racing. In fact, I would bet most have raced in some form or fashion and a lot got their start in sailing through racing (as I did on Lasers and J24s). The point I was making was that a 40 minute time limit is not standard. I think its fair to say that everyone posting here knows that some sort of time limit is normal. Saying that a 40 minute limit for these boats is too short does not mean that there should be no time limit at all. Nor by saying that a 40 minute limit is not standard (like a 60 minute football game or a 9 inning baseball game is) am I saying that time limits themselves are not a normal element in racing instructions.
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Old 21-09-2013, 12:58   #605
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
The juxtaposition of the minimum wind limit of 3 knots and the time limit of 40 minutes is interesting. During the abandoned race the winds ranged from about 6 to over ten at times and the Kiwis were still several minutes from finishing when the time ran out. This makes the 40 minutes seem strangely short when a start would be allowed at just over 3 knots.

Hoping for some more exciting racing today with the Kiwis finally getting the necessary win.

Cheers,

Jim
Agreed!
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Old 21-09-2013, 14:07   #606
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Re: Twenty Knots

Too bad NBC is showing football! Sigh.
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Old 21-09-2013, 14:07   #607
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by SVNeko View Post
In fact, I would bet most have raced in some form or fashion and a lot got their start in sailing through racing
Sure they did, that's why they are complaining about things like time limits and wind limits which are all known before the race/event even starts, and a normal guideline in any regatta.

Just to clarify, there are some folks in the group that have raced, but many have not. Plus, I do not like seeing people wishing someone would lose at anything. (it's pretty shallow) I personally like both teams. I've been a fan of Dean Barker and the Kiwis since 2007 and before.

The 2007 Americas Cup was very exciting watching ETNZ win several races from behind against Alinghi....Terry Hutchinson and Dean Barker really worked some magic in a couple of those races.
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Old 21-09-2013, 14:27   #608
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Too bad NBC is showing football! Sigh.
DirectTV ch 220
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Old 21-09-2013, 14:42   #609
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Re: Twenty Knots

As for the 3kt lower windspeed limit and the 40min time limit, I can only think that the wind limit is set for the minimal speed to sail the boat. So the hope would be that the wind would increase during such a race as to allow the boats to make the time limit, not that the boats could be expected to make the time limit in 3kts of wind.

From yesterday, it appears that 10-12kts of wind is necessary for these boats to make the time limit. Maybe winds <10kts was not thought probable for SFB in September?

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Old 21-09-2013, 14:50   #610
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Re: Twenty Knots

And what about this delay for wind direction? Is there something in the rules about that?
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Old 21-09-2013, 14:56   #611
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Re: Twenty Knots

Now what?! They can't race because the winds are in the wrong direction? Can't reach up and back? Wouldn't be what the AC is all about?

All these criteria have created a very narrow window of opportunity for these races. I would think different wind speeds and directions would produce a more rounded competition and more accurately reflect which team had the best sailors.
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Old 21-09-2013, 15:04   #612
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by SVNeko View Post
And what about this delay for wind direction? Is there something in the rules about that?
Yes, the course is defined in the same rule amendment as the time limit. If the wind shifts so much that they cannot compensate with course adjustments, then the race is delayed.

I don't know about moving the course and boundaries to a completely different area of the bay - but to do so would also encompass a delay as it is done. And move the event away from the shoreline and audiences.

This is probably one of those times when past AC races with 10 mile courses set many miles offshore and with no interested audiences were more accommodating.

I will take this type of delay any day given the alternative.

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Old 21-09-2013, 15:09   #613
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Re: Twenty Knots

lets see
- can't sail if it rains
- can't sail if there is wind > 18 kts
- can't sail if the wind is too soft <= 10 kts
- can't sail if the wind is not where they want it

can't can't can't
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Old 21-09-2013, 15:10   #614
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Yes, the course is defined in the same rule amendment as the time limit. If the wind shifts so much that they cannot compensate with course adjustments, then the race is delayed.

Mark
So what happens if the wind shifts 30 degrees during the race. Do they abandon the race because the boats suddenly have to reach instead of beat and run? Given what we've witnessed so far, my guess would be yes.
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Old 21-09-2013, 15:12   #615
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Yes, the course is defined in the same rule amendment as the time limit. If the wind shifts so much that they cannot compensate with course adjustments, then the race is delayed.

I don't know about moving the course and boundaries to a completely different area of the bay - but to do so would also encompass a delay as it is done. And move the event away from the shoreline and audiences.

This is probably one of those times when past AC races with 10 mile courses set many miles offshore and with no interested audiences were more accommodating.

I will take this type of delay any day given the alternative.

Mark
Yes, I agree this is much more exciting racing. But I am not sure what you say is correct and if I had the faster reaching boat I might make some noise here. Looking at the sailing instructions it lays out a course, including marks on a chart of SF bay. It does call them windward, leeward marks, etc. But I don't think this is enough of a shift to change that. So I don't see anything in the rules that allows for the delay. I don't even see any jury discretion about it. Maybe there is something in the protocols that I am missing.
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