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Old 20-09-2013, 17:11   #586
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Re: Twenty Knots

In case anyone would like to race against some of the best catamaran racers in the world for a cost of around $25,000, check out one of the latest A Class Catamarans. (but) if you do decide to do it, give youself at least 3-5 years to get up to speed. Seriously, it's a tough crowd to race against.

An A Class Catamaran is 18' long and weighs around 165 lbs. One of the crew on ETNZ is a Champion A Class Catamaran Sailor

DNA Advanced Racing Catamarans

http://www.usaca.info/
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Old 20-09-2013, 17:12   #587
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Re: Twenty Knots

Its NOT standard. Its clearly a rule that's been in effect for this regatta for a while but its specific to this regatta. A 40 min time limit is no way some kind of "standard" in sailboat racing. So its not uninformed who are objecting. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand it or its provenance but just because it exists doesn't make it any less nonsensical.
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Old 20-09-2013, 17:22   #588
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by SVNeko View Post
Its NOT standard. Its clearly a rule that's been in effect for this regatta for a while but its specific to this regatta. A 40 min time limit is no way some kind of "standard" in sailboat racing. So its not uninformed who are objecting. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand it or its provenance but just because it exists doesn't make it any less nonsensical.
Sure it's standard. I'll try and find it in another catamaran racing event.
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Old 20-09-2013, 17:32   #589
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Re: Twenty Knots

Every race I've sailed in has had a time limit, and all competitors are aware of it. The time limit is not "standard", but is race-dependent: my race limits have been hours or days, depending on the course. If I were racing shorter courses or faster boats (like in these AC races), the limit could reasonably be measured in minutes.
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Old 20-09-2013, 17:44   #590
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Re: Twenty Knots

Maybe I should have said it's standard for Catamaran Racing.

As you have seen, they are racing 2 races a day in this years America's Cup which isn't usual for the AC Cup, but quite normal for catamaran racing. I'm actually used to 3-5 races a day as a catamaran racer.

Here is a link to a normal catamaran buoy racing regatta. It's 90 minutes to finish and 20 minutes to finish after the first boat crosses the finish line.

And we are talking catamarans from 16'-20' not 72 footers.

See item Number 9 in the Sailing Instructions for the 2013 West River Spring Regatta.

http://www.sailingsource.com/wrsc2/d...ng_Regatta.pdf
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Old 20-09-2013, 18:09   #591
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Re: Twenty Knots

And in honor of team Oracle's improved communication between Skipper Spithill, Slingsby, and Tactician Ainslie check the comm between Team Espana's Skipper and Crew on their 20' Olympic Tornado Catamaran in this practice race: (the skipper is giving the crew lots of instruction it appears. Awesome crew work though)

Btw, the crew is handling the main sheet, jib sheet, mast rotator, downhaul, spinnaker halyard, and spinnaker sheet............and main traveler. And probably is responsible for mast prebend adjustments between races. Plus weight distribution adjustments. His position. And calling the tacks.

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Old 20-09-2013, 18:25   #592
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
Looks like this really is the Cruiser's Forum. (non racing) That's a normal race rule. There is always a limit so they/we can get the next race off.

Normally, we catamaran sailors have 4-5 races per day. We sit around quite a while waiting for the slower boats to finish. It's a pain. If they do not finish in the proper time, the next race starts.
I've experienced courses being shortened due to time constraints and I've experienced not finishing before a deadline due to light wind conditions, but this is the AC and there are only two boats and two races all day if conditions permit. Even so, 40 minutes is a little extreme.

But I'll admit to being ready for this ordeal to be over and the cup to go back to NZ. Sick and tired of all the delays and 3 races that ETNZ was winning being blown dead before the finish and really, really tired of the announcers referring to Oracle as "The Americans". I don't care who agreed to what because it's a very frustrating sporting event to watch and I'm sure 10 times worse for the participants. After this experience, I'm pretty sure the Kiwis will make some changes next time.
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Old 20-09-2013, 19:39   #593
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by OldFrog75 View Post
I've experienced courses being shortened due to time constraints and I've experienced not finishing before a deadline due to light wind conditions, but this is the AC and there are only two boats and two races all day if conditions permit. Even so, 40 minutes is a little extreme.

But I'll admit to being ready for this ordeal to be over and the cup to go back to NZ. Sick and tired of all the delays and 3 races that ETNZ was winning being blown dead before the finish and really, really tired of the announcers referring to Oracle as "The Americans". I don't care who agreed to what because it's a very frustrating sporting event to watch and I'm sure 10 times worse for the participants. After this experience, I'm pretty sure the Kiwis will make some changes next time.
I won't argue the 40min issue, but rules are rules.

However, you do seem to forget that many past AC races and series were also plagued by wind limits and time limits. Some of those races were called after HOURS of racing, not minutes. Were you equally as frustrated then and wanted the whole shebang over?

If the Kiwi's win, they will, of course, also construct rules with time and wind limits. That is part and parcel of developing a racing series. And you can be sure that the probability will be that these also sometimes get triggered.

As for "the Americans", it is a US yacht club defending the cup with a boat designed and built in the US, so it is an American boat. Just as the Deed of Gift specifies.

While I agree with you that I would like to see some form of nationality rules (not 100% nationals), I don't see your argument that this is not the "American" boat. It certainly is by all definitions meaningful to this series, as well as the rule AND intent of the Deed of Gift controlling the event.

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Old 20-09-2013, 20:21   #594
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Re: Twenty Knots

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As for "the Americans", it is a US yacht club defending the cup with a boat designed and built in the US, so it is an American boat. Just as the Deed of Gift specifies.

I don't see your argument that this is not the "American" boat. It certainly is by all definitions meaningful to this series, as well as the rule AND intent of the Deed of Gift controlling the event.

Mark
They can call it "an American boat" for all the reasons you specified but I don't like it when they refer to the crew as "The Americans" or "Team USA". I have zero national pride in this boat or this race.
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Old 20-09-2013, 21:02   #595
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I only like it when they call it the Americans and were winning otherwise its just bad migrant law ruining my great and righteous country's name.
Great race and so far in the last week no lawsuit.
Salt big grains of salt take it that way please.
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Old 20-09-2013, 22:18   #596
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Re: Twenty Knots

Embarrassing again! i start to wonder if the race committee is paid by Ellison, whats next for tomorrow? the choppy seas with 2 inches over the rule? or wait maybe that black cloud sending some gusts over the wind limit Lol...
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Old 21-09-2013, 00:04   #597
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Embarrassing again! i start to wonder if the race committee is paid by Ellison, whats next for tomorrow? the choppy seas with 2 inches over the rule? or wait maybe that black cloud sending some gusts over the wind limit Lol...
Embarassing??? What was the race committee supposed to do??? They are enforcing the rules. Would you have them decide that the rules don't apply to both team equally? Perhaps the rules only need to be enforced when it would disadvantage USA/GGYC/Oracle/Ellison? Would that make you happy?

How about the port/starboard rule? Or the 3-boat-length circle at the mark? Should these be guidelines rather than rules?

I was in a race where the winning boat was later penalized for accessing competitor's position information via the internet. This penalty took them off the podium. They may not have understood the rule, and probably gained no advantage from doing this. A lot of people thought that the rule should have been ignored. In the end, the boat and the race committee agreed that the penalty was justified. I think this was the correct decision.

This isn't 'Nam. This is sailboat racing. There are rules!

Sheesh!
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Old 21-09-2013, 00:38   #598
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Re: Twenty Knots

I think the Americans who are carrying the two race 'imposed penalty' would be the team feeling down in the dumps, race 13 would just be letting them feel a cool inrush of fresh air as they hope to get back in the picture.

This whole series, with the truly magic coverage, is the winner making a 'non-spectator sport' understandable and putting it into the living rooms of non-sailors around the world, there's lots of winners here and i think the future 'advertising space' sales will rocket as quickly as these boats do....All good stuff!
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Old 21-09-2013, 06:27   #599
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Embarrassing again! i start to wonder if the race committee is paid by Ellison, whats next for tomorrow? the choppy seas with 2 inches over the rule? or wait maybe that black cloud sending some gusts over the wind limit Lol...
The Sailing Instructions for this years America's Cup are available to everyone and posted before the races start like any other sailboat race. See instruction number 8:

http://www.cupinfo.com/downloads/ac3...all-091413.pdf

And here are the sailing Instructions for this years 2013 West River Spring Regatta. They are pretty similar. The time limit will be different though from race to race due to the course and the boats. Time limit in this instruction is number 9 with extra instructions for the other boats since there are lots of boats and not just 2.

http://www.sailingsource.com/wrsc2/d...ng_Regatta.pdf

And the Sailing Instructions for the Spring Fever Regatta over in Georgia. A bit of a different twist on this time limit, but it is posted as usual before the races start. See Number 11.:

Standard Sailing Instructions

The other rules noted in the instructions are referring you to the latest USSailing rules. You can download that here. It goes over everything not in the local sailing instruction or Notice of Race (NOR): (Racing Rules of Sailing 2013-2016)

2013-2016 Racing Rules of Sailing
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Old 21-09-2013, 10:59   #600
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Re: Twenty Knots

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I think the Americans who are carrying the two race 'imposed penalty' would be the team feeling down in the dumps, race 13 would just be letting them feel a cool inrush of fresh air as they hope to get back in the picture.

This whole series, with the truly magic coverage, is the winner making a 'non-spectator sport' understandable and putting it into the living rooms of non-sailors around the world, there's lots of winners here and i think the future 'advertising space' sales will rocket as quickly as these boats do....All good stuff!
Agree completely.
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