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Old 16-09-2013, 15:32   #511
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Re: Twenty Knots

For those still concerned about the wind speed limits, here is an interesting article: America's Cup - Some History of Wind Limits - from CupInfo

Note that you need to go all the way back to the 1980's to find higher wind limits than what are in effect for this present AC series.

One interesting thing to note is that the LOWER limit for this AC series is 3kts, which is the lowest limit ever. In fact, many past AC races were called because of low, or variable winds. Embarrassing.

Note that if the race was held in 3kt of wind, the AC72's would be sailing at around 10kts and the recreational cruisers would be motoring to and from the race. Embarrassing.

Many of you have racked on about how you can sail in heavier wind than these boats - can you sail in lighter wind?

Mark
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Old 16-09-2013, 15:45   #512
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Re: Twenty Knots

For those of you who keep nattering on about the "original intent" of the America's Cup, perhaps you would actually like to read the Deed of Gift for your facts: AmericaOne - America's Cup Deed of Gift

Nowhere does it state the necessary nationalities of the crew - only that the Cup will be held and defended by a yacht club.

Interestingly, it allows any type of boat to be brought to the competition, as long as it is between a certain waterline length. No box rules, no agreement on boats, etc.

This was exactly the type of AC series that Larry Ellison brought to bear in 2010 - with him winning the most traditional and "original intent" AC series since the 1800's.

Do you really want to see that every time?

If not, then stop complaining about "tradition" and "original intent".

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Old 16-09-2013, 16:13   #513
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Re: Twenty Knots

A bigger question might be "Why does it seem necessary to have hired guns from NZ on an American boat sail against Kiwis on a NZ boat when there are only 3+ million Kiwis and 330 million Americans. It sort of suggests that when it comes to sailing that little hand full of Kiwis sort of kicks ass!
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Old 16-09-2013, 16:50   #514
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
A bigger question might be "Why does it seem necessary to have hired guns from NZ on an American boat sail against Kiwis on a NZ boat when there are only 3+ million Kiwis and 330 million Americans. It sort of suggests that when it comes to sailing that little hand full of Kiwis sort of kicks ass!
I've thought of that myself. For football (soccer in the US), you would recruit from countries that enjoy that as a national pastime. I have an automotive forum with members from NZ, and even though hot rods is the theme of my forum, there are sailing and America's Cup threads that the kiwis have started. So I have to assume that sailing is more entrenched in NZ, better sponsorship and yes, better sailors.

Maybe that is why a real sailing junkie like Laura Dekker has moved to NZ. She got a taste of the Camper team while in Cape Town and was invited to race with them.
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Old 16-09-2013, 16:58   #515
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
A bigger question might be "Why does it seem necessary to have hired guns from NZ on an American boat sail against Kiwis on a NZ boat when there are only 3+ million Kiwis and 330 million Americans. It sort of suggests that when it comes to sailing that little hand full of Kiwis sort of kicks ass!
It's probably due to who knows who. Let's say you hire Spithill as Skipper and are searching for a crew. He would probably mention some of the folks he has sailed with before. It's as simple as that.

There are some awesome American Catamaran Sailors out there. Just check some of those that has sailed the Worrell 1000, Tybee 500, and the Olympics plus 100s of buoy races every year.

Matt Struble, Kenny Pierce, Randy Smyth. ETNZ employee Glen Ashby who is an A Class Catamaran Champion. Matt Struble of Michigan is also plus he's an Ice sailboat racing champion.

Also, for those of you that are enjoying this Americas Cup and think you'd like to try this sort of thing, you can easily get into Catamaran Racing with an A Class 165 lb singlehanded catamaran that can hit around 25 knots without a spinnaker. Plus there's an article on Struble's latest wins

United States A-Class Catamaran Association
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Old 16-09-2013, 17:01   #516
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Re: Twenty Knots

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. It sort of suggests that when it comes to sailing that little hand full of Kiwis sort of kicks ass!
Yes, that is exactly what it is.

Just so I don't give the wrong impression, I am in favor of making the teams national. Or at least 50-75% national.

The problem with 100% national is that new countries who may wish to develop AC teams and become competitive over the years cannot always field an appropriate helmsman or tactician, and cannot ever get into the game without some help.

That would make a poorer AC environment if the nationality rules were such that nations new to the event could never get their foot in the door.

But if the Kiwi's win and make the next cup even 50% national, they are going to hold the cup for a long time.

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Old 16-09-2013, 17:05   #517
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
There are some awesome American Catamaran Sailors out there. Just check some of those that has sailed the Worrell 1000, Tybee 500, and the Olympics plus 100s of buoy races every year.

Matt Struble, Kenny Pierce, Randy Smyth. ETNZ employee Glen Ashby who is an A Class Catamaran Champion. Matt Struble of Michigan is also plus he's an Ice sailboat racing champion.
Charlie Ogletree and John Lovell also.

I agree that there is good US talent, but the next event may not be catamarans.

And the Kiwi's are nuts about, and focused on, sailing and racing on anything. I think if the next event was on reed rafts, they would dominate. It is just their time in this sport's history.

Kind of like Brazil in soccer back in the Pele days.

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Old 16-09-2013, 17:15   #518
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Re: Twenty Knots

Not to be knocking the Kiwi's at all, but they don't dominate in all phases of our sport. In terms of offshore racing the French are way ahead of all others, especially shorthanded.

Another way to look at the population situation is that while we have over 300 million souls on board, not so many are sailors or even interested in the sport as spectators. That's why (I think) that the weekend AC races were scratched from TV coverage in favor of some stupid golf match, the likes of which could be seen just about any weekend of the year. The shame of it all: golf over the most exciting sailboat racing I've ever seen (and I started out decrying this event, and still think that the boats are too damn expensive).

I believe that Tuesay's races will once again provide us with wisdom about Nescafe products and the occasional glimpse of the races... sure hope so!

Cheers,

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Old 16-09-2013, 17:48   #519
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Not to be knocking the Kiwi's at all, but they don't dominate in all phases of our sport. In terms of offshore racing the French are way ahead of all others, especially shorthanded.
Yes, you are correct on this, of course. I was only thinking about buoy racing and match racing. If I was to bet on a single handed round the world on a multihull, I would bet French (the only time when carrying a 4kg anchor on a 20 meter boat actually works for them).

Basically, if you look at any race and think "you would have to be out of your mind to enter that", it will be dominated by the French.

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Old 16-09-2013, 18:02   #520
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Re: Twenty Knots

Let's not forget the Australians here.

The best America's Cup race ever was in 1995 when Australia handed Russell Coutts and the Kiwis on their boat Black Magic their only loss of the entire LV and America's Cup series.

One frigging loss and Australia did it with their 2nd boat! (the one that didn't sink) To give you an idea of the strategy, there were 44 tacks on the first upwind leg alone.

For those that have forgotten, most races begin with an upwind leg. Australia won the start and tacked on the Kiwis before they could even cross the start/finish line.

I have it on VHS if you can believe that and Gary Jobson's calling it!
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Old 16-09-2013, 18:09   #521
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Let's not forget the Australians here.
Since this thread is dominated by US and Kiwi fans, we are quite happy to forget the Australians, thank you very much...

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Old 16-09-2013, 18:17   #522
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Re: Twenty Knots

1995 Australia vs New Zealand:

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Old 16-09-2013, 18:42   #523
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Re: Sail better

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Trouble is, the only way to hate multihulls is to make up your own facts.

Absolutely sensational racing today. Better than any monohull racing ever.
Not coming from a sailing race background I can only agree 100%.

Incredibly spectacular. Notice the crew are all sucking in the air. as the crew say it would be hard to go back.
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Old 16-09-2013, 22:57   #524
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Since this thread is dominated by US and Kiwi fans, we are quite happy to forget the Australians, thank you very much...

Mark
Note to Mark:-
Many of the 'Kiwi fans' are also Australians and many Kiwis are living [openly as Kiwis!!] in Australia, sometimes even with each other.

We are a lot friendlier towards each other than some TV commentators think, most of the time. [Yes, you knew that]

Sporting contests between us as nations are excluded of course!

I initially thought social familiarity and drinking sessions with New Zealanders was fine but interbreeding was possibly unwise.

My resultant [now teenage] grandson is going a long way to allaying my initial fears. He does closely resemble a fine human being although I confess to checking for the growth of horns or webbed feet annually.

His predisposition to perform a Haka at the drop of a hat is a little disconcerting but his skill at rugby, gathering seafood and great sense of humour compensates.

Though some may try to forget, NZ was and is still closely entwined with Australia, to the benefit of both.

So Mark, you may wish to 'forget the Australians' as NZ supporters but we are here mate, we are here!
Go ETNZ!!!

Cheers,
Mac

PS. Stop arguing with those who don't understand apparent wind and resultant stresses, you are wasting your intellect.
Just refer them to Gino Morrelli's interview on the AC72.
Mac
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Old 17-09-2013, 00:26   #525
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Re: Twenty Knots

Go Kiwi's

From an Australian
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