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Old 11-09-2013, 22:53   #421
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Re: Twenty Knots

Was racing cancelled for today? Can't find any comment on AC Site?
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Old 11-09-2013, 23:41   #422
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Was racing cancelled for today? Can't find any comment on AC Site?
The next scheduled race is tomorrow (Thursday).
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Old 12-09-2013, 00:55   #423
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Re: Twenty Knots

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The AC72 doesn't foil upwind (well, it does, but we haven't seen much of that yet). I think his point was that catamarans are very slow in tacks relative to mono's but they build up speed after very quickly relative to monos.

Mark
These boats tack FAST! They get through a tack in a couple of seconds! (The fact they're doing around 20 knots obviously doesn't hurt)

One of the commentators mentioned that they can foil upwind, and generate even more speed, but it costs them a lot of leeway.
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Old 12-09-2013, 04:30   #424
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Re: Twenty Knots

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These boats tack FAST! They get through a tack in a couple of seconds! (The fact they're doing around 20 knots obviously doesn't hurt)

One of the commentators mentioned that they can foil upwind, and generate even more speed, but it costs them a lot of leeway.
The tack they tried to do around the mark though slowed the boat too much is the point here. They were sitting dead in the water there for a second. Kostecki never should have called for it.

Round the mark, get your speed back, then tack plus you can see what the other boat is doing. They maybe would have tacked first.

Not only that it pinned them in a bit. They had less course to work with afterward, but that didn't matter at that point since the race was already over.
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Old 12-09-2013, 04:36   #425
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Re: Twenty Knots

They forgot they were in front/had the lead and only needed to cover, you only pull 'tricks' out when behind and the further behind the more radical the trick. First rule of club tactics....
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Old 12-09-2013, 05:12   #426
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Re: Twenty Knots

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They forgot they were in front/had the lead and only needed to cover, you only pull 'tricks' out when behind and the further behind the more radical the trick. First rule of club tactics....
Exactly.
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Old 12-09-2013, 05:19   #427
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Re: Twenty Knots

Agree but did you here the words on the comms in the background?
"We need to get on top of this"
'But i need more time'

It came soon after the squat, my thoughts were they hoped for NZ to follow but squatted mid manoeuvre so the confused Kiwi's bore away, it was probably a reasonable tactic but got it really screwed up by shedding so much momentum/energy.

I think they planned it but needed more time to execute it smoothly.

Cheers
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Old 12-09-2013, 07:43   #428
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Re: Twenty Knots

I too had this impression that Oracle's cockpits are a bit tight for two large frame grinders - clearly visible in upwind work.

They say Kiwi's jib is a self-tacker while Oracle's has to be manned.

Sort of maybe such small items accumulate and give Kiwis slight advantage when tacking/gybing?

b.
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Old 12-09-2013, 08:19   #429
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
These boats tack FAST! They get through a tack in a couple of seconds! (The fact they're doing around 20 knots obviously doesn't hurt)

One of the commentators mentioned that they can foil upwind, and generate even more speed, but it costs them a lot of leeway.
In relative terms, they tack slower and with more leeway than monos. They are only able to carry ~30% of their speed through a tack at best (watch them go from 25+kts to 7-8kts while tacking). Mono's do much better than that - although their top speed is similar to a tack-stalled catamaran's speed.

This is just a fact of life for catamarans.

So in absolute terms, you are correct that they are tacking fast, but in relative terms they are slow.

I've watched these boats practice upwind foiling several times. The issue is when does VMG at lower angles become more favorable. That coupled with coming off foils unexpectedly because of wind or experience carries a big penalty which makes foiling upwind a risky tactic.

Not to mention, the wind getting underneath the boat on foil causes all sorts of control issues. In one race, TNZ came on foil upwind and loss control when the wind lifted their bow up.

If these guys had more time to figure these boats out before the series started, I think you would see more upwind foiling and more foiling tacks.

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Old 12-09-2013, 11:18   #430
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Well, the coffee grinders on both boats are charging hydraulics. Not as tough as when they gear directly to winches. (Not to take anything away from Dalton.)
I just saw this article: AC34: The Anatomy of an AC72 | Sail Magazine

It states that the grinder pedestals switch from pumping hydraulics to direct mechanical linkages to the winches.

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Old 12-09-2013, 11:21   #431
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
I too had this impression that Oracle's cockpits are a bit tight for two large frame grinders - clearly visible in upwind work.

They say Kiwi's jib is a self-tacker while Oracle's has to be manned.

Sort of maybe such small items accumulate and give Kiwis slight advantage when tacking/gybing?

b.

+1 Me to, seems to me the Kiwis are faster at the tackings , Oracle grinders need to get out of the hole and run to the other side , even Spithill is leaning their ass out of the boat , Grinders to close...
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Old 12-09-2013, 16:03   #432
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Re: Twenty Knots

UUuum uuum good i do lub dem barbique and tasty words today as NZ gets another two yummi points! Whats that score?

6 - 0

Oracles win on Sept 8th was nullified.

America Cup Results

NZ needs 9 to win, so only 3 more to go.

Oracle needs 11 to win due to a penalties.


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I'm thinking Team Oracle had a major breakthrough today.
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*munch *munch *munch *gulp

Whats that sound?

The sound of thomm225 eating dem words



GO NZ!!!!!!
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Old 12-09-2013, 16:15   #433
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Re: Twenty Knots

Wow.... Wow.Wow.WOWWWWWWWWW....
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Old 12-09-2013, 16:16   #434
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
UUuum uuum good i do lub dem barbique and tasty words today as NZ gets another two yummi points! Whats that score?

6 - 0

Oracles win on Sept 8th was nullified.

America Cup Results

NZ needs 9 to win, so only 3 more to go.

Oracle needs 11 to win due to a penalties.
Yeah, I didn't watch much of the LV Cup and based my opinions on races 3 and 4. It just goes to show you how quickly things can change in sailing.

I'm happy you got to enjoy the races ........
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Old 12-09-2013, 16:38   #435
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Re: Twenty Knots

This is such a lead, almost embarrassing. Still, race isn't over yet, so anything can happen.
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