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Old 10-09-2013, 15:38   #376
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Not to mention that athletes at their level suck up a mistake and get back in the game. I think pulling their card to "regroup" was a bad choice, given how fragile these boats are and how many races are potentially ahead of them.

Mark
They are losing due to bad tactical calls on the race course. That has to be fixed and now.

Why lose another race when maybe they can have a few meetings and start sailing/racing like normal catamaran sailors which is mostly about winning the start and keeping the speed up.

Maybe they will consult with some of our catamaran racing sailors on the level of Glen Ashby of TENZ. Matt Struble would be a good place to start. Btw, he also races machines that sail/race on ice...............very similar speeds to these AC catamarans.

http://www.usaca.info/
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Old 10-09-2013, 16:01   #377
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Leaving the race yesterday some jerk sailing downwind with a preventer holding his main by the lee claimed to be on starboard tack and wanted to enforce his rights, despite the fact that a zillion boats were sailing away from the race course on port tack. Fine. I jibed over to starboard, passed him quickly, and then hardened up as the leeward boat, putting him into irons before sailing away.

You wanna play games, you'd best be ready to lose.
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Old 10-09-2013, 17:08   #378
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Re: Twenty Knots

The one race the Defender won was in heavier air. Not untypical of AC series... often one boat is better in light air and one in heavier air. Personally, I would rather see them have a rule that they dont race in less than 18 knot average... instead of the current rule shutting them down at what... 23?... that would get rid of some of the fraility of the designs!
The Kiwi boat is faster, and the Kiwi's have made better decisions. It's obvious the Kiwi boat tacks better.... either crew or boat or both. I dont know why the US boat wants to play by the old rules and cover them in a tacking duel... I'd be tempted to just sail the shortest route with t he fewest tacks... of course where the wind is alters that too.... "armchair quarterback" :>)
It seems real strange to me that a boat can be penalized for a previous boat and crew's mistakes.. I mean it takes 4 years and 100 million dollars to do this... what if the series was super close.. doesnt seem right to me. So few are willing to spend the money now.. there was only one defender this time... they had no one to race with prior.
I liked the AC when Dennis Conner went to NZ and took the cup back.. heavy winds and seas! These boats would be flotsom in those conditions....
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Old 10-09-2013, 17:25   #379
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Re: Twenty Knots

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I liked the AC when Dennis Conner went to NZ and took the cup back.. heavy winds and seas! These boats would be flotsom in those conditions....
This is why I have owned and heavily raced 4 catamarans. And now own an old Bristol 27 Monohull. I was on the 3-11 shift at the time, and I believe the races started at around 2400-0100 Central Time. Needless to say I was up til " Zero Dark Thirty" watching.

Oracle's boat speed and pointing ability upwind are fine I think. They didn't have any trouble in race 4.

You just cannot stop the boat dead in the water for a tack while your opponent is still up to speed and continues on. Maybe they will adjust their tactics some.

Off topic somewhat. I think I would certainly enjoy sailing into that bay there in San Francisco. I'm now looking at a 1984 Ericson 35. PHRF 123 so it's fast even. Weighs/displaces around 13,000 with 5200 ballast. I know it isn't necesarily a Blue Water Boat, but I'm thinking I may be able to get there from here on it.
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Old 10-09-2013, 17:38   #380
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Looks like Team Oracle USA still doesn't realize they are racing catamarans.

You do not shut the boat down like they did at mark 2. You round and extend to keep your speed up. John Kostecki may be in trouble if he called this type of tack.
You're singing a different tune from yesterday when you seemed sure Oracle was better all around.
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Old 10-09-2013, 19:30   #381
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
I'm thinking Team Oracle had a major breakthrough today.
*munch *munch *munch *gulp

Whats that sound?

The sound of thomm225 eating dem words



GO NZ!!!!!!
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Old 10-09-2013, 19:50   #382
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
*munch *munch *munch *gulp

Whats that sound?

The sound of thomm225 eating dem words



GO NZ!!!!!!
Hahahaha Lol, wow thats funy!!!!
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Old 10-09-2013, 20:54   #383
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Re: Twenty Knots

I really wish the announcers would stop referring to Oracle's boat as "Team USA" and "The Americans".

How many Americans are on the boat....2? Hardly enough to be representing the USA or be referred to as "the Americans".

Call it what it is - Team Ellison, and leave it at that.
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Old 11-09-2013, 04:32   #384
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Re: Twenty Knots

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You're singing a different tune from yesterday when you seemed sure Oracle was better all around.
I'm still singing the same tune:

Oracle's boat speed and pointing ability are fine...........

You saw the start. Spithill did what Spithill does and won that. They did fine at the first mark, but for some reason, decided to stop the boat at the 2nd mark. To wait on the competition?

I assumed that with a multimillion dollar catamaran and racing operation (or billion, gazillion dollar whichever) they would have better racing tactics than a veteran Hobie 16 sailor with a $6,000 used boat.

Also, the announcers were of the same mind. They were like "what are they doing?"

They again went away from the tactics they used to win race 4 to some sort of monohull racing tactic which would have been fine on a boat that tops out at 12 knots and tacks fast.

Maybe they spent too many years on the slow boats to adjust.

I'm not seeing a true catamaran guy on Team USA. Team ENZ has small racing catamaran champion sailor Glen Ashby on board. I'm thinking Team USA should have a Randy Smyth, Matt Struble, or a Kenny Pierce on board. (or) At least on the training boat.

Btw, Glen Ashby sails an A Class Catamaran. The weight of the boat is 165lbs.
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Old 11-09-2013, 04:59   #385
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Re: Twenty Knots

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I really wish the announcers would stop referring to Oracle's boat as "Team USA" and "The Americans".

How many Americans are on the boat....2? Hardly enough to be representing the USA or be referred to as "the Americans".

Call it what it is - Team Ellison, and leave it at that.
Team USA definitely has some "hired guns" but that's going on in most all professional team sports these days

Team Emirates NZ had American Terry Hutchinson as tactican in 2007 to help Dean Barker battle Alinghi. (and) They pulled off some awesome wins.
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Old 11-09-2013, 06:01   #386
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Re: Twenty Knots

It did not look good when Spithill got called out to Coutt's boat to talk in private. At least Dalton is in the comfortable position to give Barker that kind of look, you know ;-)

I think US Team tactician had a good reason to call for the foiling tack BUT it just did not work - especially that Kiwis were clearly faster upwind again.

Good thing the US team drew the card and they sure will fix things. We may get a hell of a sailing show tomorrow.

b.
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Old 11-09-2013, 06:34   #387
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Re: Twenty Knots

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It did not look good when Spithill got called out to Coutt's boat to talk in private. At least Dalton is in the comfortable position to give Barker that kind of look, you know ;-)

I think US Team tactician had a good reason to call for the foiling tack BUT it just did not work - especially that Kiwis were clearly faster upwind again.

Good thing the US team drew the card and they sure will fix things. We may get a hell of a sailing show tomorrow.

b.
I'm thinking Tactician John Kostecki had a good reason for that tack also, but it wasn't a good place for it I don't believe. Maybe they should have waited just a bit more after the mark rounding so the boat wouldn't be slowed down as much.

Also in race 4 after they screwed up and dropped the foil which slammed the hull into the water at the downwind mark, Spithill was able to sail high (and fast) and force New Zealand to tack away. This is why I think the boat is fine upwind.

This from an article concerning Team Oracle USA: Awesome quote by Spithill.........

Spithill added that sail changes and crew changes were on the table. Asked if he was concerned about his job, he said: "You can be a rooster one day and a feather duster the next day."
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Old 11-09-2013, 06:49   #388
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Re: Twenty Knots

The entire article cited above:

America's Cup defending champions Oracle Team USA postpone race six | Sport | theguardian.com
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Old 11-09-2013, 06:56   #389
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Re: Twenty Knots

It's a shame the american defender doesn't have confidence in their own sailors to defend the mug! A sad indictment ....... The only thing American in the boat are two crew members and Oracle's chequebook.
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Old 11-09-2013, 07:03   #390
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Re: Twenty Knots

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It's a shame the american defender doesn't have confidence in their own sailors to defend the mug! A sad indictment ....... The only thing American in the boat are two crew members and Oracle's chequebook.
It's been that way for years with all the teams. It's called professional sports. There was an American Ed Baird Skippering Alinghi for Switzerland in 2007, and other American Terry Hutchinson as Tactician on ETNZ's boat in 2007.
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