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Old 09-09-2013, 10:03   #346
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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post

I think I heard Gary Jobson say the wind had to be 22 or 23 knots sustained for 5 minutes before the race would be called after a start. In race 4 yesterday, it kept dipping below that. There were lots of spots of 25 knots though..
I was on the eastern edge of the course yesterday, near the Berkeley slot, and was seeing a steady 23 knots prior to the second race. Of course, if you measure the wind closer to the city front.....

The spectator fleet was far more tame yesterday than on Sunday, when there were numerous collisions. It probably didn't help that there was a boatload of naked people sailing through the fleet on Saturday, but in yesterday's fog it was cold enough to keep the rabble clothed. On most of the bigger boats people tended to be down in the saloon during the race, watching it on TV. Seriously. But from the eastern border we couldn't ever see the tops of the AC72 rigs because of the fog.

I was in a powerboat on Saturday in the VIP area. Professional captain. At one point a sailboat overtook us, and was making all sorts of noise about having "right of way." Idiots. I hope people on this forum understand that there's no sail-over-power privilege granted when overtaking. The COLREGS are pretty clear that the overtaking vessel always must keep clear. This even applies to sailboats overtaking powerboats; you must keep clear.

Leaving the race yesterday some jerk sailing downwind with a preventer holding his main by the lee claimed to be on starboard tack and wanted to enforce his rights, despite the fact that a zillion boats were sailing away from the race course on port tack. Fine. I jibed over to starboard, passed him quickly, and then hardened up as the leeward boat, putting him into irons before sailing away.

You wanna play games, you'd best be ready to lose.
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:25   #347
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Leaving the race yesterday some jerk sailing downwind with a preventer holding his main by the lee claimed to be on starboard tack and wanted to enforce his rights, despite the fact that a zillion boats were sailing away from the race course on port tack. Fine. I jibed over to starboard, passed him quickly, and then hardened up as the leeward boat, putting him into irons before sailing away.

You wanna play games, you'd best be ready to lose.
Sounds like the racing got you fired up. That's awesome that you sailed to leeward, gained position, then luffed him up for being a pain. (and did it legally)

Maybe they'll have a slot for you on one of the AC Boats!
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Old 09-09-2013, 11:10   #348
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by Bash View Post

You wanna play games, you'd best be ready to lose.
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Old 09-09-2013, 11:53   #349
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Re: Twenty Knots

Glen Ashby is a Champion A Class Catamaran sailor. That boat is 18' long and weighs 165lbs (that's the minimum allowed)

He helped train Spithill for the 2010 race and has been with ETNZ for the AC Cup Campaign.

Emirates Team New Zealand's hidden advantage | Alameda Waterfront

http://www.sail-world.com/photos/Alt...0beach_Std.jpg

Google Image Result for http://www.xssailing.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Alt_Glenn-Ashby-A-Cat-Nationals-2012_Std.jpg


Also, if anyone likes what they see in these races and wants to dive right in among the best, here is the link to the A Class website. There are races all over the US and abroad.

http://www.usaca.info/
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Old 09-09-2013, 12:33   #350
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Maybe they'll have a slot for you on one of the AC Boats!
Thanks but no thanks. I outgrew round-the-buoys racing long ago. I'll still do the occasional offshore race, but only if I get at least a day's rest in between tacks.
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Old 09-09-2013, 12:41   #351
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Thanks but no thanks. I outgrew round-the-buoys racing long ago. I'll still do the occasional offshore race, but only if I get at least a day's rest in between tacks.
Yeah. I know what you mean.

I couldn't believe Grant Dalton was riding on the ETNZ boat and cranking a winch at 56 years old. (which means he also has to cross to the other hull without falling off during tacks)
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Old 09-09-2013, 12:44   #352
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Yeah. I know what you mean. I couldn't believe Grant Dalton was riding on on the ETNZ boat and cranking a winch at 56 years old.
Well, the coffee grinders on both boats are charging hydraulics. Not as tough as when they gear directly to winches. (Not to take anything away from Dalton.)
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Old 09-09-2013, 12:57   #353
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Fine. I jibed over to starboard, passed him quickly, and then hardened up as the leeward boat, putting him into irons before sailing away. You wanna play games, you'd best be ready to lose.
ROFL!!
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Old 09-09-2013, 13:16   #354
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Well, the coffee grinders on both boats are charging hydraulics. Not as tough as when they gear directly to winches. (Not to take anything away from Dalton.)
Have you actually used those, or is that another opinion? I had the opportunity to use almost identical hydraulic charging grinders on a Mod 70 tri and they kicked my butt - almost unturnable with one person in high gear. Watching the crew on TV, it looked like at times they were really bearing down on the winches and you could hear the grunting whenever the onboard camera was used.

I don't believe there is much difference between them and the ones on winches. The winch ones I have used have actually been easier. Both, however, do have several gears. The main difference is that the hydraulic ones need to be in almost continual grind.

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Old 09-09-2013, 13:28   #355
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Watching the crew on TV, it looked like at times they were really bearing down on the winches and you could hear the grunting whenever the onboard camera was used.
Grunting. Hmmm. Sounds serious.

One thing to consider is that all those coffee grinders go into a central hydraulic system. In essence, you can have ten people powering a single winch. Of course, the hydraulics also power the dagger boards, rudders, et cetera.

Grinders on AC 72s spend more than twice the time grinding than they did on the old ACC boats. More effort over time, but less at any given time.
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Old 09-09-2013, 13:36   #356
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Re: Twenty Knots

I'm just glad the races have been exciting to watch.

Twice yesterday although to leeward of ETNZ, Team Oracle USA with Spithill at the helm was able to bear off/go low, power up, and move ahead of the Kiwi boat and come back to the proper upwind line.

(And) The camera angle was awesome. I was freaking out a bit the first time when Oracle's bow started to move ahead, and it was no less exciting on the start of race 4 when Spithill did the same thing, but he really bore off for speed and it paid off.

He also went for the best side of the start line, and he was to leeward of TENZ so he would have been in a controlling position even if he didn't pull even. Team NZ would have been unable to tack.

Check it out at 1:14 in on this video:

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Old 09-09-2013, 13:37   #357
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Re: Twenty Knots

A yes, another deflection from directly answering a question. I will assume that you only have an opinion about those grinders and no actual facts.

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Old 09-09-2013, 13:59   #358
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Re: Twenty Knots

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One thing to consider is that all those coffee grinders go into a central hydraulic system. In essence, you can have ten people powering a single winch. Of course, the hydraulics also power the dagger boards, rudders, et cetera.
I question this. I've seen some grinders working slowly and sporadically, obviously controlling something that required a little finesse, and on the neighboring pedestal another grinder cranking as fast and hard as he can. This isn't the behavior we would see if they were all feeding a common pressure reservoir.
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Old 09-09-2013, 14:20   #359
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Re: Twenty Knots

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I question this. I've seen some grinders working slowly and sporadically, obviously controlling something that required a little finesse, and on the neighboring pedestal another grinder cranking as fast and hard as he can. This isn't the behavior we would see if they were all feeding a common pressure reservoir.
The grinders are geared at several speeds/efforts. Often you may see a single person grinding easily (topping up?), then at other times two grinding with difficulty (bulk filling?).

I don't know if they have a single pressure reservoir or several. It makes more sense to me to have several that are sized to specific tasks.

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Old 09-09-2013, 14:22   #360
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Grinders on AC 72s spend more than twice the time grinding than they did on the old ACC boats. More effort over time, but less at any given time.
I think you're comparing apples to oranges. The boats are so different that you just can't make that assumption about the grinding effort required.

Unless you know this for a fact? All I know is what I've seen on the videos.
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