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Old 08-09-2013, 18:00   #331
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Re: Twenty Knots

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That's what my wife was saying as we watched today's races. I kept trying to explain that it's as much a part of match racing as is sailing fast. And think what you like, but it takes skill to play that part of the game well.

She still didn't like it.
Spithill did the same thing in 2007, but it appears with these boats all he needs to do now is simply get ahead and then go for boat speed...............

No slow speed stuff. Once you gain control, go for speed. And he knows that now as well.

The guy didn't own a car until he was 27 years old. It was all boats before that.

http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article...up-3743944.php
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Old 08-09-2013, 18:36   #332
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Re: Twenty Knots

Whats the score, guys and gals? (End of Sunday)

I think its 3 - 1 NZ?
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Old 08-09-2013, 18:53   #333
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Does anyone know what happened to Williwaw, the hydrofoil cruising tri?
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Old 08-09-2013, 19:20   #334
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Re: Twenty Knots

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I don't know about that now. Today's race #2 (Sunday) had pretty strong winds, near the upper limit, and the boatspeeds were pretty well matched. In the previous races I think Oracle was sailing downwind deep/slow/direct, and NZ was higher/faster/further, and NZ had the better VMG. I don't know if Oracle was sailing faster or smarter today, but the stronger wind didn't seem to hurt them.

Today's races were really exciting. If we see more like these I think the predictions of boring no-tactics racing will have been proven false.
Yes. It was clear yesterday. Today things shifted. This is good sign.

Race 4 was very good indeed. I am looking forward to Tuesday races.

I am not certain, but I think it felt like in race 4 the boats were somewhat on the edge - the dip by the US team and the Kiwis seem to have flown their windward hull way up high on two occasions too. We may see a wind speed limit imposed Tue. (?)

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Old 08-09-2013, 19:27   #335
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
Whats the score, guys and gals? (End of Sunday)

I think its 3 - 1 NZ?
3 to -1, because Oracle was docked 2 points for cheating in the 45's. Pretty exciting racing today. Oracle showed they can hang with the Kiwis after 2 sound defeats. A couple minor tactical mistakes by the Kiwis today but they have shown they are in step with the USA team and might be a little sharper due to more time in competition. Boatspeed looks pretty evenly matched. There are good tacking duels on the beats and its no longer the team to the first mark first wins (although its a huge advantage). Starts are exciting. It seems like the jury is "letting them play" - some close luffs that were not called as penalties even though it looked like the windward boat didn't keep clear.
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Old 08-09-2013, 20:10   #336
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
Whats the score, guys and gals? (End of Sunday)

I think its 3 - 1 NZ?
Actually it's 3 -0. Oracle has to get 3 points to net 1 after the 2 point penalty.
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Old 08-09-2013, 21:18   #337
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Yes. It was clear yesterday. Today things shifted. This is good sign.

Race 4 was very good indeed. I am looking forward to Tuesday races.

I am not certain, but I think it felt like in race 4 the boats were somewhat on the edge - the dip by the US team and the Kiwis seem to have flown their windward hull way up high on two occasions too. We may see a wind speed limit imposed Tue. (?)

b.
Yes, I saw Oracle's bow dig in, and it did look like TNZ was flying the windward hull a bit out of control for a while.

Don't they still have the same old wind limit? There is a bit of a heat wave going on inland, which usually means fog and strong afternoon winds on the Bay, so they might hit the limit on Tuesday.
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Old 08-09-2013, 21:22   #338
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Actually it's 3 -0. Oracle has to get 3 points to net 1 after the 2 point penalty.
I'm pretty sure it's now TNZ = 3, Oracle = -1. Oracle started the series with -2 (and TNZ with 0). TNZ has won three races, and Oracle one. The first team to reach nine wins gets the Cup, so TNZ needs six more wins, Oracle needs ten more.
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Old 09-09-2013, 02:03   #339
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Re: Twenty Knots

TNZ didn't get more time in competition! They've had none until now.
USA had in-house competition and so better tuned in that respect. Don't look as fit though - too many burgers.
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Old 09-09-2013, 04:24   #340
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Re: Twenty Knots

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TNZ didn't get more time in competition! They've had none until now.
USA had in-house competition and so better tuned in that respect. Don't look as fit though - too many burgers.
TMZ just completed racing the LV series. They had lots of time to sharpen their skills with all the competiton they saw there, but I believe in race 4 Oracle has leveled the playing field if not moved ahead a bit.

If Spithill can win the first leg and/or the start in the future, I believe he can hold the lead. He was able to get his boat up to speed quite a few times faster and pass the Kiwi's on a couple occasions.

The wind was at 21-25 knots though during that last race so we'll have to see if he can do similar things in lighter air. I believe he can. And he has always been good at the prestart even on the monohulls in 2007 where he beat Team Oracle BMW 5 to 1 with a slower boat.

Here he is as Skipper of Luna Rosa. He even backs his boat up a bit in this prestart against Team Oracle BMW. Btw Spithill said he was forced to race like this due his boats slow speed in '07:

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Old 09-09-2013, 07:53   #341
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Re: Twenty Knots

Luff up race 3:

(Glen Ashby/Wing Trimmer, small racing catamaran Champion A Class 18' 165 lb boat, is trapped out on TNZ in the photos.http://www.stqry.com/v/Crew---Glen-A...5e73fa8950b77c )

72 foot flying boats travelling at 35 knots just feet apart. Exciting enough for you?
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Old 09-09-2013, 08:13   #342
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Yes, I saw Oracle's bow dig in, and it did look like TNZ was flying the windward hull a bit out of control for a while.

Don't they still have the same old wind limit? There is a bit of a heat wave going on inland, which usually means fog and strong afternoon winds on the Bay, so they might hit the limit on Tuesday.
Neither of those were due to wind - Oracle pulled their controlling board up too quickly during a jibe and TNZ were attempting to foil upwind and they got their bow too high and the wind got under it.

Both could happen in light air, although foiling upwind wouldn't happen.

Remember, the boats are designed for heavier winds than the artificially imposed limits and the crews daily practice in higher winds whenever they occur. I suspect those limits will be looser for these finals than they have been in the past races.

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Old 09-09-2013, 08:32   #343
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Remember, the boats are designed for heavier winds than the artificially imposed limits and the crews daily practice in higher winds whenever they occur. I suspect those limits will be looser for these finals than they have been in the past races.

Mark
I think I heard Gary Jobson say the wind had to be 22 or 23 knots sustained for 5 minutes before the race would be called after a start. In race 4 yesterday, it kept dipping below that. There were lots of spots of 25 knots though.

The boats were definitely handling the wind well. Dean Barker probably just steered a little low (or not high enough) as he was being hit by a strong lifting gust which allowed his boat to get too much air under it, and he lost valuable time. The skippers normally will be watching the water closely and steer slightly upwind just before hitting a lifting gust.

When Oracle dropped their hull in near the mark, someone had inadvertantly dropped the foil into the water accidentally it appeared.
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Old 09-09-2013, 08:36   #344
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Re: Twenty Knots

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(...) Don't they still have the same old wind limit? There is a bit of a heat wave going on inland, which usually means fog and strong afternoon winds on the Bay, so they might hit the limit on Tuesday.
I have seen limits displayed during the LVC (I watch live yo utube feeds) but seen no limits during any of the first four races.

Must watch the post race 4 stats now to see how fast they were really going. But it did look very very fast on TV.

I am so happy the organizers spent money on digitized overlays. They are great help watching and understanding what works for them and why.

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Old 09-09-2013, 08:51   #345
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Whats the score, guys and gals? (End of Sunday)

I think its 3 - 1 NZ?
Here is the current score:

ORACLE TEAM USA takes Race 4, but Kiwis lead 3-0

Full story: (Team USA Oracle hit 53 mph/ TNZ 52 mph. Avg Speed Both Teams 36mph in 22 knots of breeze Race 4)

http://www.americascup.com/en/news/3...iwis-off-track
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