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Old 04-09-2013, 17:35   #286
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Great video! So refreshing to watch sailors who don't need to wear helmets.
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Old 04-09-2013, 17:40   #287
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Re: Twenty Knots

And so we got to the point where Kiwis took the Youth's AC. Meanwhile US teams were busy clipping lobster pots with their appendages ;-)

Portuguese boys came in third. I liked what they showed.

What a shame we did not get to have a medal race today! Still, the results look pretty fair.

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Old 04-09-2013, 17:51   #288
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Re: Twenty Knots

Actually, they will just stall the wing and the boat gets parked. But she may get tipped over as the forces will work in new directions and the energy cannot be spent to create movement.

All sail racing has speed limits. Why should AC be any different?

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Old 04-09-2013, 18:00   #289
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Re: Twenty Knots

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All sail racing has speed limits. Why should AC be any different?
Agreed. In collegiate racing on CFJs, race committees are generally reluctant to start races when the winds reach gale force, which is 34 knots. Of course, those are little plastic dinks, not 72' carbon fiber racing machines.

But 18 knots? In SF Bay where the wind exceeds that pretty much every day this time of year?

Embarrassing.
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Old 04-09-2013, 18:18   #290
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Re: Twenty Knots

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All sail racing has speed limits. Why should AC be any different?b.
The original limit for the AC72s was 33 kts...........until Artemis crashed, fell apart - whatever - killing one of their crew..........and it was then dropped
to 19-20kts for LV +/- current (huh?)........and it appears AC 34 might be 23 kts.........OMG run for cover

AC is supposed to be the pinnacle of sailing.....at least that is what they want you to believe. But when you create a "boat" that is so overpowered in winds /venue that are regularly sailed & RACED in by a wide range of boats & sailors(of all ages & skills) in SF Bay all summer long......something is truly wrong.

Brand new to the sport people taking keelboat 1 are trained in these conditions.

Yet being over a wind limit by 1 or 2 kts stopped a AC45 (their limit is 18) race today with skilled sailors who were sailing all over the course waiting & ready to race not running for cover. If the races were really run back to back rather than waiting for who knows what (staring at wind numbers?) it would have been over - the course is so short, boats are quick enough & the races are really short - they would have all been having a late lunch before the wind got even close to "overpowering" for these precious machines.

P.S. After an earlier LV Cup wind limit cancellation, youth (under 12...) racers took to the course in tiny boats to race...........future Volvo Ocean Racers where NO Limits rule
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Old 04-09-2013, 18:24   #291
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Re: Twenty Knots

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I hope you all remember the 2010 America's Cup where several races were called for too much wind. The upper windspeed limit was 15 kts.
Ah yes, that was the first time Oracle showed up with a wing. Indeed, the wing on that boat was so tall it couldn't fit under the bridge.

Really.
But it was Alinghi that didn't want to sail in the higher wind and chop. I recall that the Principle Race Officer had to force Alinghi to start the last race when they were claiming that conditions were too rough for them. The low wind limit / sea state rules were apparently there at Alinghi's insistence, not Oracle's.

It seems that you have a severe case of ODS there, Bash! (Oracle Derangement Syndrome)
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Old 04-09-2013, 19:13   #292
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Re: Twenty Knots

I would not be amiss if the boats actually used the whole damn bay and had tacking battles the whole way through, including a circumnavigation around angel island.
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Old 04-09-2013, 19:36   #293
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Re: Twenty Knots

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But it was Alinghi that didn't want to sail in the higher wind and chop. I recall that the Principle Race Officer had to force Alinghi to start the last race when they were claiming that conditions were too rough for them. The low wind limit / sea state rules were apparently there at Alinghi's insistence, not Oracle's.

It seems that you have a severe case of ODS there, Bash! (Oracle Derangement Syndrome)
Yes, the boat that's better in light air always wants an upper limit. The boat that's better in heavy air always wants a lower limit. Anyone who's ever run a race committee understands this. (As I know you do!)

But yes, Paul, I'm a bit down on Oracle at the moment. They're the ones that were caught cheating in a sport that's long been known for its honor code. Fouling the opposition because you thought you could port-tack the start line is one thing, but adding bags of lead pellets to the kingpost in a one-design class is entirely different.

I mentioned before that had Alinghi won, this regatta would have been raced in ACC 90s. And there would be far more nations competing. Imagine the thrill had the LV series been competed by eight well-matched yachts.
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Old 04-09-2013, 19:43   #294
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Re: Twenty Knots

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(...) But 18 knots? In SF Bay where the wind exceeds that pretty much every day this time of year?

Embarrassing.
Yep. But this is what the place is like and the organizers new it. Blame them. Nothing wrong with the craft, nor with wind limits.

BTW something is telling me the limit might be pushed up for the AC now. The drivers&crews are more experienced and safety procedures have been beefed up.

There seems to be plenty of overpower on the top mark, just like with the skiffs.

Anyways, another two days of waiting. But the thing is worth the wait!

b.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:32   #295
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Re: Twenty Knots

Team New Zealand has announced that when it reclaims the cup it will make changes toward cost reduction and the restoration of nationality.

Nationality. Out of 15 sailors who will race this weekend, on ETNZ 13 will be Kiwis. On Oracle, only two will be American.

Embarrassing.

Kiwis Driven To Reclaim America’s Cup CBS Los Angeles
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:11   #296
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Re: Twenty Knots

OK, go NZ!

17 races will make my liver will itch like Prometheus. Will this agony endeth?
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:28   #297
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Re: Twenty Knots

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I would not be amiss if the boats actually used the whole damn bay and had tacking battles the whole way through, including a circumnavigation around angel island.
It's rare in the America's Cup finals to see any close racing besides the start. 2007 was the exception with multiple lead changes in several races due to tactician Terry Hutchinson and Skipper Dean Barker of Team Emirates New Zealand.

They (Emirates New Zealand) pulled one awesome maneuver on one of the upwind legs in one of the races. After several tacks where each boat would tack off when the met, Terry Hutchinson had Barker sail a lower course as the two boats were again converging. (they had just receive a nice lift)

As the two boats came together Alinghi tacked while Team Emirates New Zealand simply came up hard on the wind without tacking. It was one of the most awesome racing moves I have ever seen. Even the Tactician Brad Butterworth on Alinghi did a double take as Team New Zealand sailed a parallel course to Alinghi. New Zealand was able to hold position and rounded first at the top mark.

Also, there were several downwind passes during the series mostly by New Zealand which also had the slower boat.
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Old 05-09-2013, 17:45   #298
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Re: Twenty Knots

Additionally, I'd like to add that since this America's Cup is being raced with catamarans it would be very surprising if it is even close. I hope it is so we can enjoy it.

When you are racing a catamaran and you reach the top mark say 30 seconds ahead of your competitor (or competitors) you really get to hammer the opposition due to the speed on the downwind leg. (and) The race is about over if you cover and don't make a mistake or have an equipment failure.

Everything in catamaran racing is faster even the thinking. You have to be quick with your thinking, you have to move faster, and you cannot make the slightest mistake which could cost you 300 yards in a few seconds.

After sailing or racing a catamaran, sailing a monohull is almost boring. It seems so much easier without all the physical movement.

(but) I did have fun this past weekend sailing in 20 knot gusts along the shore. The boat would roll darn near 45 degrees off vertical. Knowing I had 2500 plus pounds of ballast was nice since I'm used to my weight of about 185lbs for ballast on a 300 pound boat with the same sail area.
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Old 05-09-2013, 19:01   #299
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Additionally, I'd like to add that since this America's Cup is being raced with catamarans it would be very surprising if it is even close.
If it is, it will be a rare AC event, as you noted above. Few of them have ever been close, even though many have "memories" of them as being so - with long tacking duals and lots of meaningful maneuvering.

If NZ wins, it will be interesting to see what boat they choose for the next one. I think there is a good chance it will be something like the AC45.

I think if Oracle wins it will definitely be something like the AC45. I don't think they will try the AC72 again.

But I suspect the AC45 would probably be pimped a bit from its present shape in a future cup - maybe slightly larger and foils if the speeds can be obtained.

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Old 05-09-2013, 19:50   #300
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Re: Twenty Knots

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My money would be on Zeehag's boat...

Mark

YES

I'd watch. TV or not. Gotta be available on The Web.
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