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Old 01-09-2013, 15:26   #211
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Seriously, I mean Seriously. Name me one Defender Syndicate in the 12 metre era that wasn't uber rich, even the challengers were plenty rich, BAron Bich from France, Alan Bond in Australia.

You make out like the AC has been a FARR 40 worlds or similar, It never has been.

Alan Bond wasn't rich. He did the whole AC thing with borrowed money.
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Old 01-09-2013, 15:27   #212
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Re: Twenty Knots

Like all engineering, systems and solutions do trickle down into ordinary day boats. Its no different from cars or aircraft and anything else.

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Old 01-09-2013, 16:19   #213
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Re: Twenty Knots

America True was funded by Christopher Coffin - a very wealthy man indeed. Dawn Riley was the chairman of the team and helmswoman on the boat, but her personal financial position had nothing to do with financing the campaign or the boat.

Dennis Conner was "poor", but was an anomaly in that years cup, to say the least. Everyone else was a billionaire. He got beat pretty badly and early on an uncompetitive boat.

There have always been "poor" helmsmen and syndicate heads - I don't understand using them as a sleight-of-hand diversion from the main point that the AC is run by the rich - just like it is now.

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Old 01-09-2013, 17:32   #214
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Re: Twenty Knots

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I forgot to mention rigid airfoils (wing sails) on cruising boats: MastFoil(tm) patent pending sailing rig by Chris White Designs High Performance Seaworthy Sailing Yachts

It kind of answers the "how is the technology going to be applied" question.

Mark
I have seen that.
Really nice.

I wish a production boat would have the balls to put a rig like that on a boat.

I have said that before. I still would like one.
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Old 01-09-2013, 18:03   #215
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Re: Twenty Knots

This remind me the Aero rig, another fiasco in a cruising boat, could be nice to see a rigid foil in 40 knts and heavy seas,, or anchored in a hurricane or big storm....
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Old 01-09-2013, 18:06   #216
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Re: Twenty Knots

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This remind me the Aero rig, another fiasco in a cruising boat, could be nice to see a rigid foil in 40 knts and heavy seas,, or anchored in a hurricane or big storm....
What if a technology advancement allowed the foil area to retract into the main "rounded area".

Then it would be the same shape as a mast............

With less wind resistance.
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Old 01-09-2013, 18:15   #217
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Re: Twenty Knots

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could be nice to see a rigid foil in 40 knts and heavy seas,, or anchored in a hurricane or big storm....
Actually, a foil in 40kts would be easier to control than a soft sail - it is infinitely able to stall, so provides almost infinite reefing. The sea state has nothing to do with it at all, other than similar to a soft sail rig.

Anchored is the real issue. Chris White tries to solve that problem by making the foil rotate 360* with low friction. If this is done correctly, then it is more stable and behaved anchored in large winds than a fixed-section mast and boom. It can hypothetically even be used to relieve loads on the anchoring gear.

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Old 01-09-2013, 18:16   #218
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Re: Twenty Knots

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I wish a production boat would have the balls to put a rig like that on a boat.
Well, since Chris White has the intellectual property and it is still in experimental stages, it isn't really a matter of balls - just time.

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Old 01-09-2013, 19:20   #219
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Re: Twenty Knots

Finally today there was some fun. This is how AC should be played - fleet races, crashes and drama. I like it now.

b.
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Old 01-09-2013, 20:04   #220
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Re: Twenty Knots

Well, I agree that that is more exciting racing, but it has never been how the AC has been done, and never will be.

But having the AC45 type of racing as a regular event would be a great thing - there is where the real "Nascar" type of sailboat racing lies.

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Old 02-09-2013, 07:53   #221
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Re: Twenty Knots

Yes. But it is not a fixed-in-stone formula; it evolves too. Why not give up on something that does not work and move on to better ways.

I agree with those that say 'if it ain't broken, do not fix it'; the point is, the AC as it is now, does not!

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Old 02-09-2013, 07:56   #222
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Re: Twenty Knots

While not literally chiseled in stone, the Deed of Gift has stipulated the form of the competition since the beginning.

It is simply "that type" of race.

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Old 02-09-2013, 08:22   #223
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
I forgot to mention rigid airfoils (wing sails) on cruising boats: MastFoil(tm) patent pending sailing rig by Chris White Designs High Performance Seaworthy Sailing Yachts

It kind of answers the "how is the technology going to be applied" question.

Mark
I doubt it. Most cruising sailors don't even adjust their sails properly now. As long as the boat is moving pretty good, they are happy. We've had long discussions concerning this on other threads.

I'm guessing the old dacron sail is fine for the average cruiser. He just isn't going to worry about having that wing meeting the air perfectly.

What's the last thing most of these cruisers replace on their boat? The sails especially the project guys, or the guys buying used boats. Have you seen some of the rags on boats for sale? Many times you will have the original main from a '70's boat. It's so blown out it pathetic.

Now for racing yes, definitely.
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:43   #224
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Re: Twenty Knots

The deed of gift has been since twisted by US lawyers well beyond "that type" of race, while US team was incapable of getting the cup on the water. I think twisting it some more so that we can get an interesting event to watch would be the least issue.

Of course, sticking to the way it is now will effectively cut many younger, less affluent but possibly more skilled, teams, from entering the picture. This is good for the US and maybe (?) for the Kiwis but this is bad for the show.

Watching the same team win another dozen of races in a row? No, thanks. BORING.

The best boats, the most boring event format.

b.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:03   #225
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Re: Twenty Knots

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Finally today there was some fun. This is how AC should be played - fleet races, crashes and drama. I like it now.

b.
Agreed!
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