Travelers Insurance Refusal to Pay

[alherrle]

Was hit while at anchor at night in Fishing Bay, Chesapeake, State of Virginia. 40k damage. The guy Insured by Travelers. Travelers, so far, not going to pay because the insured was involved doing something illegal. He was taken to jail that night. I think he may have been drinking or at least stunned after he hit us.

Needless to say, we are sick. Boat US, our company, will fix the boat. We must pay all expenses for 2 to 3 months and the 5k deductable.

Question: Have any of you been denyed payment because the person who hit you was engaged in an illegal activity? Do all the companies except Boat US, say NO at any excuse and force you to hire a lawyer or is it just Travelers Insurance?
Al

[Sailagain]

Won't your insurance company sue him to recover the losses they are going to pay out to fix your boat?

If not you should definitely find a lawyer who will take the case on a contingency fee. If he has any money at all - you will recover your losses and the lawyer will get paid

[captain465]

If his (Travelers) insurance says they will not pay due to his commiting an illeagal activity he is essentially uninsured. Would not Boat US' uninsured boaters coverage take care of the situation??

[captain465]

Originally Posted by captain465

If his (Travelers) insurance says they will not pay due to his commiting an illeagal activity he is essentially uninsured. Would not Boat US' uninsured boaters coverage take care of the situation??

If that is not available to you, I think an attorney is called for.

[David M]

The way it is supposed to work if you are not at fault is that your insurance company pays the expenses and works things out between the other insurance company or the owner who is responsible.

You need to get after your insurance company to cut you a check after the cost of repair has been confirmed. Your insurance company may have to sue the owner personally in order to recover expanses, but this is not something for you to worry about. This is done after you get paid by your insurance company for the damages.

[Hud3]

It's called "subrogation". There should be a clause in your policy addressing it.

[donradcliffe]

So, are you guys saying he should take the check from his own insurance company, then go after the other guy for the $5k deductible and the living expenses??

[S/V Antares]

Time for a lawyer. This issue should be resolved in a few calls to the offenders ins. co. Remember the first words from any ins. co. is "No". His illeagal act has nothing to do his liabilility. Sue their pants off. Put a lien on his boat and any other property. If he was at a bar, name them also. You have to make waves to get their attention.

[dennisjay]

This likely will not be resolved with a "few calls to an offender's insurance company." Travelers Insurance has an excellent reputation, but if the policy says there's no coverage, filing suit is a waste of time. You should consult with an attorney, but there may not be enough here for one to take it on contingency, especially if there was only property damage and no bodily injury. Boat/US also should be able to guide you on options to get your out-of-pocket costs.

Another option is to find out if the other boater has other insurance. An umbrella policy or even a homeowners policy might pay you. A last resort would be to take it to small claims court. If the other boater is from Virginia, the threshold likely is low, but at least you will get something back.


Good luck

[Sailagain]

Originally Posted by dennisjay

This likely will not be resolved with a "few calls to an offender's insurance company." Travelers Insurance has an excellent reputation, but if the policy says there's no coverage, filing suit is a waste of time. You should consult with an attorney, but there may not be enough here for one to take it on contingency, especially if there was only property damage and no bodily injury. Boat/US also should be able to guide you on options to get your out-of-pocket costs.

Another option is to find out if the other boater has other insurance. An umbrella policy or even a homeowners policy might pay you. A last resort would be to take it to small claims court. If the other boater is from Virginia, the threshold likely is low, but at least you will get something back.

Good luck

I didn't think he should sue the INS company - sue the person involved

I wouldn't rule out a lawyer so quickly without knowing the facts of the case!

If it is and open and shut case - and the offending party has cash - a lawyer very well may want to take the case

We don't know enough to say anything to the OP - other than you have options and you should try them all

[dennisjay]

I didn't say rule out a lawyer, but on a contingency basis, the lawyer's cut is going to be 25% to 33%. May not be much left to cover out-of-pocket expenses, which I think is what is being sought here since his uninsured boater's coverage kicks in. I suggest looking at other options first. Hiring a lawyer to simply draft and send a demand letter to the other boater might be another option.

[David M]

Originally Posted by Hud3

It's called "subrogation". There should be a clause in your policy addressing it.

Hud is exactly right. No attorney necessary.

Subrogation Definition

Nobody here has had this done even with an automobile accident? I have when someone hit my wife's car where it was not her fault and MY insurance company paid the cost to get the car repaired. My insurance company then got reimbursed from the guilty parties insurance company. Had the guilty party not had insurance, my insurance company would have gone directly after the guilty party for reimbursement. If the guilty party had insufficient funds or refused to pay THEN it goes to court for a judgement with the plaintiff being my insurance company and the defendant being the person who is responsible for the accident.

[dennisjay]

Subrogation only happens when there's coverage on both sides. If there's no coverage in force by the offending boater, there's no subro.

[hellosailor]

Al, read your own insurance policy. Read all the fine print. I'd expect they ALL say the same thing, that if you defraud them, if you deceive them, if you are committing illegal activity or even unsanctioned activity (such as racing) you've got no coverage.

You file a claim against him and them, get their written denial saying he was not covered because he was doing something illegal, then you send that to your own insurer and proceed as if it was someone without any coverage. The two insurers should be able to deal with that between themselves, because whether he was doing something illegal is probably going to be decided after a court gets around to it, possibly a year or two down the line.

Read the fine print in your own policy, you may be surprised.

If your own insurer backpeddles, speak to your local insurance department (state level in the US) or buy an hour with a lawyer. Insurers often try to waffle out of things, and some attention from your state insurance department and citing exact codes often will end that fast up front. You might check about the other guy's poilicy and his state regulations as well. (State, assuming this is all US.)

[David M]

Originally Posted by dennisjay

Subrogation only happens when there's coverage on both sides. If there's no coverage in force by the offending boater, there's no subro.

With all due respect, this is not true. If the guilty party is not insured, ones insurance company will then go directly after the guilty party to recover costs. I have seen this.