Transit Time? NY-FL

[Mary Flower]

Originally Posted by Snore

But all the free advice on the internet isn't worth squat a o'dark :30, when you are 20-30 miles out and things go pear shaped. Whereas if you have done your own research, you may be able to predict the weather change or have a better understanding of what to do. Bill

That gets my vote for best comment on this whole thread.

"Pear shaped", indeed. Positively priceless!

Jim

[scoobert]

I will soon be asking about reefing.
i now know where my reefing hook is, but i do not know how to rig the lines, or what size line i will need.
i can make a crossing, or whatever at this point.
people with no knowledge have done it, having book knowledge i can do it.
as i have said, a day sail is not practical, as we are on a river that is 2 days from the ocean.
i have my basic safety down.
running a jack line fore to aft, keeping my harness clipped in at all times above deck, changing my genoa instead of furling down.
i understand my boat 95% now, all that is left is reefing, boom vangs, spinnaker rigging, staysail rigging.

[Paul Elliott]

Scoobert, yes you can do it, but not yet! Learn to reef. Practice in difficult conditions. Practice in easy conditions.

How you rig and use your reefing will depend on the sail / boom design. There are several possible methods.

Yes, some woefully unprepared people complete some awfully big adventures. They call that "luck". You can never be completely prepared, but I suspect that you still have a good way to go until you can stop having to rely on luck.

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

Scoobert, yes you can do it, but not yet! Learn to reef. Practice in difficult conditions. Practice in easy conditions.

How you rig and use your reefing will depend on the sail / boom design. There are several possible methods.

Yes, some woefully unprepared people complete some awfully big adventures. They call that "luck". You can never be completely prepared, but I suspect that you still have a good way to go until you can stop having to rely on luck.

well i was thinking that i would put in one reef, as soon as the sails are up.
i have read most of the power comes from the genoa anyway, and in an emergency i can furl that from the cockpit.

[Richard5]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

Yes, some woefully unprepared people complete some awfully big adventures. They call that "luck". You can never be completely prepared, but I suspect that you still have a good way to go until you can stop having to rely on luck.

One starts with two buckets, one filled with luck and one labeled experience. The object is to fill the bucket of experience before emptying the bucket o' luck.

Knowledge is best gotten from bad experience.

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by Richard5

Knowledge is best gotten from bad experience.

very true, like the time i attacked Maratha's Vineyard in 8' seas in my powerboat. learned a lot that day.

[hellosailor]

scoobert-
I'm of the "go and go now" school, because life gets in the way. But I have to say I wouldn't make the ride with you. I admire your enthusiasm but unless you are one of those lucky fellows who steps in a cowpie and finds a diamond in it every time...Here's a few concerns.

First off, the sea is not unkind, cruel, or merciless. It simply doesn't care. If you are 100 miles offshore, or even 20 offshore but 100 from the nearest inlet, you may be stuck there for more than 24 hours getting tossed around. Literally, tossed. Maybe you've heard that old saw about "for want of a nail, a kingdom was lost" ? Same thing on boats at sea, the little meaningless things add up and become huge compound problems.

For instance, in your blog you mention replacing six feet of crumbling hose. OK, but are you aware that the big rubber companies, ALL OF THEM, say to replace belts and hoses after 5 years no matter how gently they've been used? And that painting a hose is grounds for condemning it on the spot? Your blog shows what looks like a Westerbleak, which is painted all red at the factory, which means you can't see the condition of all the other original hoses, which should be condemned and replaced according to their makers. If any one of them fails--your engine range goes from 700nm to zero, on the spot. Considering that you think the water pump was installed wrong-way-up, do you think the PO replaced any hoses or belts on schedule? That's a nuisance, but a time bomb unless you do it now.

You mention upgrading an alternator and pulley and going to double belts. Uh-uh. Had a friend who bought and ran surplus cop cars for many years, most of them with double belts. Which are sold in matched pairs, because if the torque on both isn't identical, one takes the load and bursts and then the other can't carry you. No problem if you've got a wrecker in the motorpool, not so good at sea. Double-v belt systems are infamous for that, and that's why wide ribbed belts are used today. Double-v's are just asking for a breakdown.

Teak decks? On old boats? Have a funny way of working in a seaway, and then sprouting a myriad of new leaks all over the boat. A cold wet salty berth for a week at sea is not fun.

16 hour shifts? Well...Every "shift work" and sleep study for the past 100 years will tell you that's certainly possible. But unless you were born on Krypton, it doesn't matter how you think you are doing, the rate of errors and accidents DOUBLES when you go from an 8-hour shift to 12 hours, and keeps climbing after that. You will suffer sleep depravation and fatigue and at sea? Remember, the sea doesn't care.

Rigging? May look and feel good, but somewhere along the way, it weakens and you can't tell that by sight. If you run a cloth up and down every stay, and find just one meathook, that means the entire rig is failing internally. There's never "just" one meathook, it means the whole rig has to be condemned. Bouncing and rolling in eight foot seas--which can be expected easily offshore--is going to stress that rig more than anything in the Hudson or LI Sound. Hit some worse weather, and the strain goes up logarithmically as the wave size and wind speed do.

You also mention not knowing where your blackwater tank is. Take a fire axe along for the ride, because if you don't know every inch of the boat and you need to locate a leak, you may need to use the axe to get there.

I'm all for the trip. But I'd most strongly advise you to pick up 3 or 4 experienced crew, at least two of them capable of planning the trip and running the boat, so that you can make decisions based on experience instead of "gee that sounds nice!" and simply not knowing what <strike>may be</strike> IS waiting for you.

I knew a fellow who spent four or five years planning and fitting a 40? foot ketch to go around the world. He didn't want to do shakedowns, just said "Enough I'm going" and left LI sound one day about ten years ago in heavy rain. Less than 48 hours later the top of his mast was sticking up out of the water off Little Egg Inlet, NJ. The boat had been seen running with sails flogging the afternoon before, but the NJSP and USCG could not get out of the inlet because of wx. Not a hurricane, not a tropical storm, just a storm. His body was never found, his widow couldn't understand why she was going to be charged for wreck removal.

He never made it past New Jersey. He didn't know that "within sight of shore" was the most dangerous place to be. He didn't know the inlets can be impassible for a hundred miles.

The sea doesn't care.

If your schedule is so flexible, at least get 2 experienced crew and spend 48 hours out of sight of land, in heavy weather. Give yourself a reality check, there are too many little things that can stack up against you right now.

[Richard5]

Originally Posted by scoobert

from the ocean.
i have my basic safety down.
running a jack line fore to aft, keeping my harness clipped in at all times above deck, changing my genoa instead of furling down.
i understand my boat 95% now, all that is left is reefing, boom vangs, spinnaker rigging, staysail rigging.

My apologies but I am going to take you to task. There is little that is basic about safety. Perhaps you spoke in a somewhat truncated from which gives at least the acknowledgement that you have concerned yourself with being safe at sea. But that is my point of contention. Being safe is not basic nor is it 'at the least' it does not merely happen or come about simply because of rigged jacklines or the onboard presence of safety equipment. Safety rightly occupies every decision you will make. Safety is paramount, it holds the predominant position, it is not a consideration somewhere along the hierarchy of decision making, it is THE pivot point by which every decision is proved right or wrong.

Every step you take, every knot you make, act like your life depends upon it...because it does! A conscious devotion to safety is the key. A safe sailor is more a thinker than a sailor. Safety, or being safe, is a state of mind. The very best safety equipment you could bring aboard is the prepared mind, then the physical ability to carry out the plan.

By reminding you of this I also remind myself. Safety requires being reminded for our nature is complacency. Complacency is as much a killer as panic or unpreparedness.

[Stu Jackson]

Yes, you might really want to learn to reef. And un-reef, too. And then, reef again.

You should be able to do it from the "comfort" of your cockpit. I recommend double line reefing.

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

16 hour shifts? Well...Every "shift work" and sleep study for the past 100 years will tell you that's certainly possible. But unless you were born on Krypton, it doesn't matter how you think you are doing, the rate of errors and accidents DOUBLES when you go from an 8-hour shift to 12 hours, and keeps climbing after that. You will suffer sleep depravation and fatigue and at sea? Remember, the sea doesn't care.

there is a lot of good info in your post, but i feel a rebuttal to this is necessary.
16 on 4 off is a program for the B-2 bomber crew.
Flying is a hard job to stay awake on.
16 on 4 off has been proven to work, and work well.
if they can complete a mid-air refueling on 4 hours sleep, i can preform a watch.
i will be keeping a good eye on weather, and i plan to grab an old weather fax for this trip.

[Coops]

16 hours sitting in an aeroplane, more or less flying level and straight. 16 hours on a sailboat, never still, like being in a washing machine, all muscles working, hanging onto things. Yep, I can see the similarity there.

Coops.

[Richard5]

Originally Posted by scoobert

there is a lot of good info in your post, but i feel a rebuttal to this is necessary.
16 on 4 off is a program for the B-2 bomber crew.
Flying is a hard job to stay awake on.
16 on 4 off has been proven to work, and work well.
if they can complete a mid-air refueling on 4 hours sleep, i can preform a watch.
i will be keeping a good eye on weather, and i plan to grab an old weather fax for this trip.

B-2s are crewed. Those crews are composed of disciplined trained professionals who tightly adhere to regimented procedure. Describe your human assets.

Facing 20' faces squared off in a short sea in an opposing current separates fact from fiction.

By "squared off" I mean the faces exceed their angle of repose but still may not break due to diff in salinity or the set of current. It's a surreal phenomena but one must be prepared.

[scoobert]

Originally Posted by Coops

16 hours sitting in an aeroplane, more or less flying level and straight. 16 hours on a sailboat, never still, like being in a washing machine, all muscles working, hanging onto things. Yep, I can see the similarity there.

Coops.

and what one would you be more apt to fall asleep in?
that is why we practice unusual attitudes, so when you do fall asleep, you can recover.
i will take the washing machine over the nothing of IFR flying.

[Paul Elliott]

Scoobert, please study the sleep schedules of professional sailboat racers, both crewed and solo. There has been a lot of serious research done on this topic. That, and my personal experience on long passages, tells me that you are just plain wrong about this.

Look, we want you to succeed. Please don't assume that we are all idiots.

[Coops]

Originally Posted by scoobert

and what one would you be more apt to fall asleep in?
that is why we practice unusual attitudes, so when you do fall asleep, you can recover.
i will take the washing machine over the nothing of IFR flying.

Sometimes, one can only say, "ah well." Good luck.

Coops.