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Old 12-08-2019, 09:56   #1
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Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...aON/story.html

I have responded to the author that picked up this story that there is a lot more than just common courtesy for keeping clear. I am going to give USCG Petty Officer Latimer the benefit of the doubt here that the reporter misinterpreted what he said about "no rules dictate how far vessels must stay away from each other, only “common courtesy".

Narraganset Bay is beautiful but the amount of traffic outside Newport on a Sunday or Saturday is not the place to just be out enjoying your day.

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Old 12-08-2019, 10:20   #2
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

CPO Latimer doesn't need the benefit of the doubt. Common courtesy here means good seamanship.
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Old 12-08-2019, 10:24   #3
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

Quote:
Originally Posted by hlev00 View Post
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...aON/story.html

I have responded to the author that picked up this story that there is a lot more than just common courtesy for keeping clear. I am going to give USCG Petty Officer Latimer the benefit of the doubt here that the reporter misinterpreted what he said about "no rules dictate how far vessels must stay away from each other, only “common courtesy".

Narraganset Bay is beautiful but the amount of traffic outside Newport on a Sunday or Saturday is not the place to just be out enjoying your day.

Harry
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https://juno423.blogspot.com
Why do you think it was misinterpreted? The COLREGs are there to prevent collision. You can get real close (esp if racing) and as long as there is no collision, you haven't broken any rules.
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Old 12-08-2019, 10:41   #4
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

I’d just like to make one comment, not necessarily directed at the tragic accident because I don’t know what actually happened. So this is entirely divorced from the accident and is my opinion regarding motorboats vs sailboats and my experience.

Sailboats are not excused from following their accident avoidance responsibility solely because they’re operating under sail according to the rules. A couple of times over this past season, one very memorable time in particular we’ve encountered while under power (making us a powered vessel) a sailing vessel headed directly at us. As we manuevered to our starboard, the sailing vessel continued to sail on a direct collision course. In the end we corrected 40 degrees to starboard acting according to the rules, only to have the sailboat keep correcting its course to be a direct collision course. At the last moment, it became apparent that the sailboat intended all along to pass directly off our stern and to not give way. We had done all we could possibly do to avoid a collision including turing 90 degrees to starboard in the end. The situation transpired over more than five minutes... maybe even ten, plenty of time for the sailboat to either go straight on or maneuver to their starboard according to the rules.

This behavior is not that uncommon and present many times while sailboats are racing. What’s a responsible powerboat operator to do? The sailboat has no right or entitlement to place a powerboat in this sort of situation in my opinion, and this goes against the rules as I understand them. It’s as if the sailboat operator is demanding to do what ever they wish and demanding that everyone else needs to somehow get out of their way.

Again.... I’m not saying anything like this happened, but the behavior is all too common. This coming from a sailboat owner.
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Old 12-08-2019, 10:56   #5
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

FYI.

Alcohol was not a factor in the collision.

The two-person catamaran sailboat was racing in the New England 100 Regatta at the time of the collision.
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Old 12-08-2019, 11:39   #6
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
I’d just like to make one comment, not necessarily directed at the tragic accident because I don’t know what actually happened. So this is entirely divorced from the accident and is my opinion regarding motorboats vs sailboats and my experience.

Sailboats are not excused from following their accident avoidance responsibility solely because they’re operating under sail according to the rules. A couple of times over this past season, one very memorable time in particular we’ve encountered while under power (making us a powered vessel) a sailing vessel headed directly at us. As we manuevered to our starboard, the sailing vessel continued to sail on a direct collision course. In the end we corrected 40 degrees to starboard acting according to the rules, only to have the sailboat keep correcting its course to be a direct collision course. At the last moment, it became apparent that the sailboat intended all along to pass directly off our stern and to not give way. We had done all we could possibly do to avoid a collision including turing 90 degrees to starboard in the end. The situation transpired over more than five minutes... maybe even ten, plenty of time for the sailboat to either go straight on or maneuver to their starboard according to the rules.

This behavior is not that uncommon and present many times while sailboats are racing. What’s a responsible powerboat operator to do? The sailboat has no right or entitlement to place a powerboat in this sort of situation in my opinion, and this goes against the rules as I understand them. It’s as if the sailboat operator is demanding to do what ever they wish and demanding that everyone else needs to somehow get out of their way.

Again.... I’m not saying anything like this happened, but the behavior is all too common. This coming from a sailboat owner.
I think the basic problem that causes the types of situation you described could be summed up from the concept "right of way". It seems most people read COLREGS as one boat having the "right of way" to do what they want while the other boat has to avoid them. This is distinctly not the case, however. Per Colregs, "Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way, the other shall keep her course and speed." That stand-on vessel has an equal and equally important responsibility as the give-way vessel, they are required to keep their course and speed. They don't have some kind of "right of way" to do what they want or "precedence" or anything else of that nature.....they have a clearly designated responsibility which is equally as important as the give-way vessel's responsibility and that is to keep their course and speed.
I blame the way the brain works and as a result how we teach COLREGS for most of this. But I certainly would encourage everyone to emphasize this misconception whenever they share COLREGS with others!
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Old 12-08-2019, 11:57   #7
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

Quote:
Originally Posted by hlev00 View Post
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...aON/story.html

I have responded to the author that picked up this story that there is a lot more than just common courtesy for keeping clear. I am going to give USCG Petty Officer Latimer the benefit of the doubt here that the reporter misinterpreted what he said about "no rules dictate how far vessels must stay away from each other, only “common courtesy".

Narraganset Bay is beautiful but the amount of traffic outside Newport on a Sunday or Saturday is not the place to just be out enjoying your day.

Harry
s/v Juno
https://juno423.blogspot.com
FYI. She was a member of a two person catamaran regatta, definitely not just out enjoying a day sail.

New England 100 is a distance race open to two person catamarans with Portsmouth D-PN number lower than 77.6. Classes are F-18, Portsmouth Handicap Spinnaker & Portsmouth Handicap Non-spinnaker. Goal is to sail 20-50 miles each day starting and finishing at Sail Newport in Newport, RI. This race is for sailors that are confident enough with their sailing ability to self rescue as conditions may warrant sailing in extreme conditions without race committee support.

http://www.regattanetwork.com/clubmg...al_07AUG19.pdf


Racing Areas
8.1 The racing area will be Narragansett Bay & Rhode Island Sound, including the East and
West Passages and as far north as Providence, RI as far east as Fall River, MA and as far
south as Point Judith, RI.
9 Courses
9.1 The planned course for each day shall be announced at the competitors meeting and posted by 0930 each morning (or removal of AP ashore, whichever is later).
9.2 All posted speed limits shall be observed, including, but not limited to, Newport Harbor, Brenton Cove and the Tiverton Basin. Neither the RC nor the OA assume any responsibility for breaches of any navigational laws by competitors in this regatta

"A reminder to competitors: Narragansett Bay is a restricted channel and
sailing vessels do not have the right of way over a vessel under power
which may be restricted in her ability to maneuver."


2019 New England 100
Possible Courses
(6 August 2019)
SAIL THROUGH CENTER SPAN OF ALL BRIDGES
DO NOT SAIL BETWEEN THE NEWPORT BRIDGE & ROSE ISLAND
Start line will be between the RC boat & a mark. Location will be announced each morning
of the race
Finish line location will be announced each morning of the race
Course modifications may be made each morning of the race depending on the conditions
Additional courses may be created each morning of the race depending on the conditions
Time limits may be modified according to conditions (breeze, tide, etc)
Boats may be finished on the race course at the RC’s discretion based on conditions
Course 1: Around Aquidneck Island (~35 miles)
Start in Newport
Sail south, keeping R “4” Gong (off Brenton Reef) to port *
Sail east & into the Sakonnet River, keeping G C “3” (E of Flint’s Pt, 3rd Beach) to port *
Sail through the center span of the Sakonnet River Bridges (new & remnants of the old)
Keep R “4” Bell (off Common Fence Pt) to port
Sail through the center span of the Mt Hope Bridge
Sail through the center span of the Newport Bridge
Keep R “12” Bell (SW of Rose Island) to port
Finish in/near Newport
Time Limit: Boats must reach G C ”3” off 3rd Beach by 2:00PM.
If first boat reaches G C “3” by 2:00pm, subsequent boats have until 2:30PM to round G C3
Any boat that does not reach G C “3” by 2:30pm must round G C3 to port & sail back to
Newport/Finish keeping R “4” Bell (off Brenton Reef) to starboard
Boats not reaching G C “3” within the time limit and returning to Newport/Finish will be
scored 20 minutes after the finish time of the last boat rounding G C ”3” within the
time limit that continued around Aquidneck Island and finished properly.
Course 2: Around Jamestown (~18 miles)
Start in Newport
Sail around Jamestown in direction to be announced the morning of the race
Keep to the south of GR “NR” Bell off of Beavertail
Keep to the north of G “3” (north end of Jamestown)
Sail through the center spans of the Jamestown and Newport bridges
Finish in/near Newport
Course 3: Around Islands in Narragansett Bay (~35 miles)
Figure eight course around Jamestown, Prudence and Patience Islands in a direction to be
announced the morning of the race
Start in Newport
Sail through center spans of the Jamestown and Newport Bridges
Keep south of GR “NR” Bell off of Beavertail.
Finish in/near Newport
Course 4: To Pt Judith (~25 Miles)
Start in Newport
Sail SW to Point Judith, keeping R “4” Bell (south of Pt Judith Jetty) to port
Sail NE keeping whistle R “2” Whistle (south of Brenton Reef) to port
Finish in/near Newport
Course 5: Mt Hope Bay/Spar Islands (~41 miles)
Start in Newport
Sail N through center span of Newport
Sail to R “6” Gong (just SSW of Mt Hope Bridge), leaving it to port *
Sail through center span of Mt Hope Bridge*
Round Spar Islands (in middle of Mt Hope Bay) in either direction
Sail S through center span of the Mt Hope Bridge
Sail N keeping Hog Island to port & Bristol Point to starboard
Round RG N (north of Hog Island) keeping it to port
Head S keeping Hog Island to port
Finish in/near Newport
Course 6: Quonset/Around Prudence (~38 miles)
Start in Newport
Sail N through center span of the Newport Bridge
Round G “WR 21” (SE of S end of Prudence Is), keeping it to port
Head W to Quonset Pt, keeping R “6” (SE of Quonset Pt) to starboard
Sail N through the cut between Warwick Pt and Patience Island
Continue clockwise around Prudence Island
Finish in/near Newport
Course 7: Hog Island Light/Around Jamestown (~40 miles)
Start in Newport
Sail N through center span of the Newport Bridge
Sail towards the Mt Hope Bridge
Round G “3” Bell (just E of Hog Island Lighthouse), keeping it to port *
Sail S keeping Prudence Island to starboard
Round the S end of Prudence Island *
Sail W keeping Jamestown to port
Sail S through the center span of the Jamestown Bridge
Round GR “NR” Bell (south of Beavertail), keeping it to port
Finish in/near Newport
*Indicate possible course change notification points
Course 8: Patience/Prudence/Fall River/Bristol (~47 miles)
Start Rose Island G”3” Gong
Sail N through center span of the Newport Bridge
Sail N keeping Hope Island to starboard
Round N end of Patience & Prudence Islands
Sail S keeping Hog Island RN”2” & Hog Island Shoal Light to port
Sail through center span of Mt Hope Bridge
Sail NE to Fall River rounding R”10” to port
Sail SW through the Mt Hope Bridge
Sail N towards Bristol, keeping RN”2” (Bristol Point) to port
Round RGN (N end of Hog Island) to port
Finish in/near Newport
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Old 12-08-2019, 13:06   #8
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montanan View Post
FYI. She was a member of a two person catamaran regatta, definitely not just out enjoying a day sail.
Am betting the 'enjoying your day' was in reference to the couple on the powerboat, not the two persons in the regatta.....

From the linked article......

Quote:
The powerboat was operated by a couple who were out on the water “enjoying their day.”
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Old 13-08-2019, 09:08   #9
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

As English is my first language, I read the whole article and responses. It appears to me that the race was a posted event, with a course. Then, a couple on a powerboat, 'enjoying their day' whatever that means collided with the catamaran, throwing one of the crew into the water, and subsequently running over her. My comment regarding COLREGS is not about right of way, for which you can be right and still dead, but who was the burdened vessel? If this is a case of distracted operation of a vessel, it is not stated, nor is the information of whether the couple on the powerboat were enjoying their day at 25 knots. I had a near miss with a 122' Coast Guard vessel, the USS Conifer, off the coast of California, at 4:00am in dense fog, operating without lights. I apparently, was sea clutter, and we could have passed a cup of coffee as we passed port to port, after notifying them, first from San Luis Obispo what our intended course was, and later as they appeared on my radar, broadside dead ahead. The dense fog would not have helped with nav lights, but they are allowed to run without nav lights if they feel so inclined. Lesson to self, watch out for your own self first.
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Old 13-08-2019, 10:09   #10
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

The article stated
Quote:
The Department of Environmental Managementis leading the investigation of the crash.
Would the USCG not be involved?
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Old 13-08-2019, 11:37   #11
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

No such thing as USS Conifer.
There was a USCGC CONIFER, which was a 180' buoy tender, based out of San Pedro. But it obviously wasn't that vessel since you dialed-in the length at 122'.
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Old 13-08-2019, 12:02   #12
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

Quote:
Originally Posted by bauer965 View Post
No such thing as USS Conifer.
There was a USCGC CONIFER, which was a 180' buoy tender, based out of San Pedro. But it obviously wasn't that vessel since you dialed-in the length at 122'.
In all fairness, he did say
Quote:
at 4:00am in dense fog...
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Old 13-08-2019, 12:40   #13
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

How hard is it for a powerboat to stay away from a sailboat and especially a regatta? [rhetorical question]



We've sailed around Newport for decades and there is no plausible rational excuse for a power boater to hit a sailboat unless the operator is among the large 'more money than brains' navy. Tragic and avoidable is a terrible combination.
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Old 13-08-2019, 12:43   #14
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

We were out that afternoon headed northbound in the East Passage and passed several F18’s southbound off Prudence Island. I’m guessing this was part of the fleet since the accident occurred about 5 miles south of us. While we had no trouble avoiding the F18’s, I will say (1) they all seemed to have gray hulls and most had gray sails which made them hard to pick out compared to many other boats and (2) they were really moving. I would estimate their speed at 12-15 knots in about a twelve knot breeze. I mention this not to absolve or indict anyone but to point out that the boats were not easy to see and were moving much faster than any of the other sailboats on the water. I wonder how early — if at all — the colliding boats saw each other.
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Old 13-08-2019, 14:28   #15
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Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

I too was out sailing in that afternoon and passed under the Newport Bridge about 45 minutes before the accident. The bay was busy but less busy than I would have expected. Conditions were perfect for any kind of boating. I saw some of the boats that were likely in the regatta but it certainly was not a short or closed course and the boats I saw were not bunched as if turning around a mark. I heard mostly one-side of the aftermath of the collision on VHF.

The article has no information that would allow a conclusion to be drawn as to the cause of the collision and the speculation in this tragic event is unnecessary. Sandra Tartaglino was the race organizer. Here is a better discussion of her life and commitment to sailing.... https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2...ragansett-bay/
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