Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-08-2019, 14:42   #16
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: 40' Silverton Aftcabin with twin Crusaders
Posts: 1,750
Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Illusion View Post
How hard is it for a powerboat to stay away from a sailboat and especially a regatta? [rhetorical question]



We've sailed around Newport for decades and there is no plausible rational excuse for a power boater to hit a sailboat unless the operator is among the large 'more money than brains' navy. Tragic and avoidable is a terrible combination.
YEAH......all power boats are supposed to come to a complete stop for sailboat parades to pass. For sure a regatta is important and must proceed unimpeded. No hardship there especially when the regatta consists of speeding catamarans which will swiftly pass by.

That attitude seems prevalent around our waters. COLREGS??? What does that have to do with a regatta, one that has an established route?
__________________

foggysail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2019, 15:33   #17
Registered User
 
Simi 60's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 1,816
Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Illusion View Post
How hard is it for a powerboat to stay away from a sailboat and especially a regatta? [rhetorical question]


.
Quite difficult sometimes.

We have had several situations happen like kenomac describes above, sailors changing course for no other reason but to be a PITA, proof being that after the far closer than necessary manoeuvering, horn sounding and ear full of abuse, they drop back onto their original course.
If they had simply stayed on their original course we would have passed within 100 metres.
__________________

Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2019, 15:41   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Slidell, LA
Boat: Beneteau First 375
Posts: 237
Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

Quote:
Originally Posted by foggysail View Post
YEAH......all power boats are supposed to come to a complete stop for sailboat parades to pass. For sure a regatta is important and must proceed unimpeded. No hardship there especially when the regatta consists of speeding catamarans which will swiftly pass by.

That attitude seems prevalent around our waters. COLREGS??? What does that have to do with a regatta, one that has an established route?
Really? Is this a troll? No, a power boat doesn't have to come to a complete stop for a sailboat race, but it does have to maneuver to avoid contact with any boats in the race (subject to draft limitations, I'm not familiar with the area). Of course, as pointed out above, the sailboat is obligated to maintain course and speed, i. e. be predictable.

We don't know what the actual circumstances are, but if a powerboat hits a boat under sail and kills someone, it sure sounds like a COLREGS violation. And this seems like a pretty tasteless opportunity for a powerboat vs sailboat rant. RIP the deceased woman, sympathies to her family.
sandy stone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2019, 16:04   #19
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: 40' Silverton Aftcabin with twin Crusaders
Posts: 1,750
Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandy stone View Post
Really? Is this a troll? No, a power boat doesn't have to come to a complete stop for a sailboat race, but it does have to maneuver to avoid contact with any boats in the race (subject to draft limitations, I'm not familiar with the area). Of course, as pointed out above, the sailboat is obligated to maintain course and speed, i. e. be predictable.

We don't know what the actual circumstances are, but if a powerboat hits a boat under sail and kills someone, it sure sounds like a COLREGS violation. And this seems like a pretty tasteless opportunity for a powerboat vs sailboat rant. RIP the deceased woman, sympathies to her family.
Lets get it straight! ALL BOATS ARE REQUIRED BY COLREGS TO DO WHATEVER needs to be done to avoid collisions and that includes sailboats. I owned a sailboat for 25 years. I still vividly recall some of the situations imposed by arrogant sailboat captains who believed THEY had a so called right of way.

One SOB came close to ramming me midsection when I had just taken down our sails forcing me to power out of his way. When I yelled at them his girl friend calmly said ‘’WE ARE UNDER SAIL AND HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAY!!!’’ My wife prevented me for going after that captain and just as well because there would have been blood shed on his boat.

Catamarans have equal responsibility to avoid collisions even is crewed by pro’s (whatever that means) day sailing or in a regatta as any power boat anywhere on the water. Unfortunately they act as if all water belongs to them
foggysail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2019, 17:19   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Fiji Airways/ Lake Ontario
Boat: Want a B430!
Posts: 1,267
Images: 5
Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

A sailing catamaran has less ability to manouver than does a power boat. Angle of sail, available acceleration, stuff like that.
Tetepare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2019, 17:26   #21
Registered User
 
Simi 60's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 1,816
Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tetepare View Post
A sailing catamaran has less ability to manouver than does a power boat. Angle of sail, available acceleration, stuff like that.
BOLLOCKS.

I have owned and raced on many sailing cats of varying sizes and all of them were incredibly maneuverable.
Us on the other hand no where near as maneuverable.
An actual ship? Even worse.
Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2019, 17:34   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 137
Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Mason View Post
As English is my first language, I read the whole article and responses. It appears to me that the race was a posted event, with a course. Then, a couple on a powerboat, 'enjoying their day' whatever that means collided with the catamaran, throwing one of the crew into the water, and subsequently running over her. My comment regarding COLREGS is not about right of way, for which you can be right and still dead, but who was the burdened vessel? If this is a case of distracted operation of a vessel, it is not stated, nor is the information of whether the couple on the powerboat were enjoying their day at 25 knots. I had a near miss with a 122' Coast Guard vessel, the USS Conifer, off the coast of California, at 4:00am in dense fog, operating without lights. I apparently, was sea clutter, and we could have passed a cup of coffee as we passed port to port, after notifying them, first from San Luis Obispo what our intended course was, and later as they appeared on my radar, broadside dead ahead. The dense fog would not have helped with nav lights, but they are allowed to run without nav lights if they feel so inclined. Lesson to self, watch out for your own self first.
So it's USCGC not USS for Coast Guard ships, the CONIFER was a 180' WLB (my first tour was on the same class), and Coast Guard buoy tenders aren't allowed to nor do they "run without nav lights if they feel so inclined". And if they "appeared" broadside to you, I'm not getting the geometry of how you would then pass port to port, why wouldn't you just cross behind their stern? Let alone how you expected someone to divine your exact position based on a radio call some time earlier while traveling in dense fog. Makes one wonder what other parts of the story have shifted with the sands of time

I will attest the AN/SPS-64 radar we had on the 180s was a piece of crap. Supposedly the 64 in the name stood for a 64 mile range, and you could turn the knob to 64 miles. But you'd be happy to get a 4 mile range on anything but a new or freshly groomed by the ET radar!
redneckrob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2019, 17:40   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Hammond, IN
Boat: Columbia 8.7
Posts: 157
Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewgyver View Post
The article stated

Would the USCG not be involved?
USCG lets the locals handle it unless a commercial vessel is involved.
CFS Klopas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2019, 17:53   #24
Registered User
 
S/V Illusion's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FLORIDA
Boat: Alden 50, Sarasota, Florida
Posts: 2,110
Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

Quote:
Originally Posted by foggysail View Post
YEAH......all power boats are supposed to come to a complete stop for sailboat parades to pass. For sure a regatta is important and must proceed unimpeded. ?
“Come to a complete stop”"?????????????

Stooping to absurdities while twisting what I said isn’t usually a good tactic but doesn’t change the sad fact someone died because a power boater ran over her.
S/V Illusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2019, 17:56   #25
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 16,323
Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
Quite difficult sometimes.

We have had several situations happen like kenomac describes above, sailors changing course for no other reason but to be a PITA, proof being that after the far closer than necessary manoeuvering, horn sounding and ear full of abuse, they drop back onto their original course.
If they had simply stayed on their original course we would have passed within 100 metres.

That's really disheartening to read. I regret they were so rude. I would like to add, though, if under sail, the yacht will come up in the puffs, normally, and that would not be with an intention to interfere with someone. Other times, they might sail a compass course, but following the wind's changes of direction is a common sailing practice. And we all know rudeness begets more rudeness, regardless of whoever started the confrontation.

If y'all are apportioning blame, I'd say the lady who lost her life was counting on the motorboat to give way to her, and if this comes to a marine court, that is what I would expect the testimony to verify. I think that perhaps, the chap in the mobo underestimated the little cat's rate of travel, but if the incident report becomes available, that is when we'll know. In the meantime, someone's family has lost a member, and apparently (from the naragasset news), she was well liked and respected. Rest in peace.

Ann
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2019, 18:28   #26
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: 40' Silverton Aftcabin with twin Crusaders
Posts: 1,750
Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Illusion View Post
“Come to a complete stop”"?????????????

Stooping to absurdities while twisting what I said isn’t usually a good tactic but doesn’t change the sad fact someone died because a power boater ran over her.

Sure, just as absurd as you implying “no plausible rational excuse for a power boater to hit a sailboat” Yes, your sailboat attitude projected into your post is clear. It appears to me you might be part of the problem.
foggysail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2019, 19:20   #27
Registered User
 
fxykty's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Auckland
Boat: Outremer 55L
Posts: 859
Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

Gosh, a bunch of ranting in amongst decent information. I write the following without any direct reference to the two boats involved in the stated collision.

COLREGS apply to all vessels (including anchored, as we determined in another thread). Generally recreational sailing vessels do not need to give way to recreational power vessels. But the sailing vessel is required to maintain course and speed. I’m sorry to hear that there are posters that have observed sailing vessels in the stand on position being dicks and actively messing with the burdened vessel. That seems far fetched to me, but if it’s in your experience than fair enough. Those were dicks who happened to be sailing.

When sailing boats are in a race they are subject among themselves to the Racing Rules of Sailing (RRS). The RRS definitely do have the concept of right of way and allow the right of way boat to ‘hunt’ the give way boat (witness America’s Cup starts as an example).

The trouble of course is that a sailor in a race must also follow the COLREGS for all interactions outside of the race (but generally use the RRS when interacting with sailboats in other races and (incorrectly) with sailboats not participating in any race). The use of COLREGs is a rule within the RRS. Witness the apparent chaos on Sydney Harbour when various fleets and ferries and commercial vessels and recreational vessels intermingle. Generally no issues, though there is a famous photo of an 18 foot skiff draped on the bow of a ferry - must have got a header just before crossing. I assume the area around Newport is similar in busyness.

When racing you are intensely focused on your race and it is often difficult on single or double handed boats to spend enough time looking outside the boat and the race for other vessels or hazards. We once sailed under the bows of a large container ship that was coming up the ship channel that our race course was crossing. The ship’s horn scared the sh*t out of us as it was the first time we noticed the ship - fortunately we were just past their bow at that point. Oops.

It is a courtesy that if you are not racing that you give way or allow free passage to the boat racing even if the COLREGs make them the burdened vessel, as they care about centimetres while you as the vessel not racing probably don’t care about hundreds of metres (other than narrow channel edge cases).
fxykty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2019, 19:55   #28
Registered User
 
Simi 60's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 1,816
Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
I would like to add, though, if under sail, the yacht will come up in the puffs, normally, and that would not be with an intention to interfere with someone. Other times, they might sail a compass course, but following the wind's changes of direction is a common sailing practice.
I have sailed most of my life on monos and multis so know exactly what you mean and this wasn't that.
Thee muppets weren't even racing, they were just being dicks.
Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2019, 20:40   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Slidell, LA
Boat: Beneteau First 375
Posts: 237
Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

[QUOTE=JPA Cate;2953263] I think that perhaps, the chap in the mobo underestimated the little cat's rate of travel/QUOTE]

I wouldn't be a bit surprised. We were once sailing a Hobie 18 across an inlet, going a good 15 or 20 knots, and encountered a powerboat coming out of the inlet. He was also going 15 or 20 knots and aiming to pass in front of us, but was actually on a collision course. I don't think he was trying to be a dick, but just couldn't comprehend how fast our little sailboat was moving. We finally had to duck under his stern, but I could understand his misjudging the situation. Heck, I once did the same thing with a ship.
sandy stone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-08-2019, 20:40   #30
Moderator
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 14,818
Re: Tragic accident on East Passage near Newport

Quote:
Originally Posted by foggysail View Post
Sure, just as absurd as you implying “no plausible rational excuse for a power boater to hit a sailboat” Yes, your sailboat attitude projected into your post is clear. It appears to me you might be part of the problem.
So then, just what plausible and rational excuse IS there for a power boat (or any boat not constrained by draft) to hit a sailboat (or any form of boat).

It is clear from COLREGS that no such situation exists.

Jim
__________________

__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II now northbound, lying in Moreton Bay pending medico appointments.
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
accident, newport, passage

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tragic accident with a sailboat Polux General Sailing Forum 14 21-11-2018 05:00
TRAGIC SINKING of Classic Sailing Yacht "PPALU" beiland Multihull Sailboats 2 01-03-2015 05:23
Tragic Accident in New Caledonia nhschneider Health, Safety & Related Gear 9 30-11-2010 08:34



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:49.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.