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Old 14-01-2016, 15:35   #1111
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by monte View Post
Maybe someone who is actually bothered by too many AIS targets could explain why they are bothered, but as far as I can tell it seems to be users being bothered by 'their' alarms.
As one who is actually bothered, let me try:

* It has been repeatedly stated here that AIS is useful to avoid collisions. Folks say that they leave it on to avoid getting run over at anchor. Folks who say that the alarm went off, and they noticed the commercial vessel rapidly approaching from behind. So, there seems to be a consensus that AIS is a good thing.
* It has been inaccurately stated that stationary vessels do not trip AIS alarms. Perhaps some do filter out stationary vessels -- which, of course, defeats any value of broadcasting while stationary. On my Garmin 545, stationary vessels are one of my primary alarms (the boats that I pass within 100 feet of on the way out of my harbor all alarm).
* I recently was sailing close (100 yards or so) to another vessel that was going the same general direction -- and is the way with boats, the courses slightly wandered left and right. As his course would wander in my direction, the alarm would go off, and I would silence it. 2 or 3 minutes later, his course would wander slightly away from me, and the alarm would reset. Then, his course would wander my way again, and the alarm would go off. Lather, rinse, repeat.
* After 4 or 5 alarms in an hour (where each one, I'd look around, try and figure out which pleasure boat it is, laugh, and silence the alarm), I'd stop looking before hitting silence. After 4 or 5 more, I'd dig into the menus and turn off the alarm, and all would be good until the next time I turned on the GPS.
* Yes, I have a poor choice in equipment. A relatively recent Garmin GPS (their answer to my email about filtering out Class B, filtering out stationary targets, or permanently disabling alarms was "no, that's not an option") and a brand new B&G VHF/AIS (their answer to my email about filtering out Class B was "sorry, try your chart plotter vendor."). Since I didn't win PowerBall, it's what I'm stuck with for at least a few more years. When the AIS and Chartplotter get too long in the tooth, I'll buy one with more control over the alarms.

My solution is to do what I've done for 40 years -- disable AIS and keep my eyes open. Without Class B, and without anchored boats, I'd have added a little bit of safety, which is nice. But "alarm fatigue" sets in fast.

I've just gone and looked at your question again, and you're looking for someone who is actually bothered by the alarms. I guess that isn't me -- they no longer bother me! Of course, I'm also no longer distracted by AIS at all.
Harry
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Old 14-01-2016, 15:45   #1112
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
All the more reason everyone should have AIS.





There was a time when no cars had seat belts. Now they all have them, in addition to airbags.

And we should all have chips installed at birth so every move we make is known. Sorry, to much control for me.


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Old 14-01-2016, 16:00   #1113
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Tragedy Strikes.

Harry, only your second bullet point had anything to do with an active AIS on an anchored boat. The underway examples cannot be seen as invalid usage in any regards.

Filtering stationary boats to not sound an alarm is not the same as stationary boats not showing at all. On our setup, the boats show up on the display, but the alarms do not go off. I have it set that way because I know I will be passing close to these boats and will have a visual on them.

Yours is the only equipment I have heard that does not allow the user to control the alarms and the parameters that activate them. The good news is that this gear will be off the market almost immediately for the annoying reasons you have discovered. I still find it difficult to believe the alarms cannot be deactivated, but I have no experience with that equipment.

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Old 14-01-2016, 16:07   #1114
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingharry View Post
* Yes, I have a poor choice in equipment. A relatively recent Garmin GPS (their answer to my email about filtering out Class B, filtering out stationary targets, or permanently disabling alarms was "no, that's not an option") and a brand new B&G VHF/AIS (their answer to my email about filtering out Class B was "sorry, try your chart plotter vendor."). Since I didn't win PowerBall, it's what I'm stuck with for at least a few more years. When the AIS and Chartplotter get too long in the tooth, I'll buy one with more control over the alarms.

My solution is to do what I've done for 40 years -- disable AIS and keep my eyes open. Without Class B, and without anchored boats, I'd have added a little bit of safety, which is nice. But "alarm fatigue" sets in fast.
No need to win Powerball. Spend an hour reading about OpenCPN - the free, open source navigation/chart plotter program. It supports AIS and allows many options for target tracking, including track only the ones I tell you to, ignore anchored boats, ignore boats traveling under a certain speed, and more. You can run OpenCPN on an old laptop you probably already have. I suggest installing Linux Mint on it first so, as Linux performs much better than Windows on old hardware.

AIS | Official OpenCPN Homepage
AIS | Official OpenCPN Homepage
AIS | Official OpenCPN Homepage
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Old 14-01-2016, 16:17   #1115
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by smj View Post
And we should all have chips installed at birth so every move we make is known. Sorry, to much control for me.


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You don't need a chip installed at birth, you probably already carry your tracking device with you everywhere.

It's called a cell phone. You know that flashlight app that millions of people downloaded onto their phones? It's primary function is tracking data, which they sell.

You don't think someone would actually spend their time coding an app to give out for free without getting paid somehow, do you?
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Old 14-01-2016, 16:21   #1116
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingharry View Post
As one who is actually bothered, let me try:

* It has been repeatedly stated here that AIS is useful to avoid collisions. Folks say that they leave it on to avoid getting run over at anchor. Folks who say that the alarm went off, and they noticed the commercial vessel rapidly approaching from behind. So, there seems to be a consensus that AIS is a good thing.
* It has been inaccurately stated that stationary vessels do not trip AIS alarms. Perhaps some do filter out stationary vessels -- which, of course, defeats any value of broadcasting while stationary. On my Garmin 545, stationary vessels are one of my primary alarms (the boats that I pass within 100 feet of on the way out of my harbor all alarm).
* I recently was sailing close (100 yards or so) to another vessel that was going the same general direction -- and is the way with boats, the courses slightly wandered left and right. As his course would wander in my direction, the alarm would go off, and I would silence it. 2 or 3 minutes later, his course would wander slightly away from me, and the alarm would reset. Then, his course would wander my way again, and the alarm would go off. Lather, rinse, repeat.
* After 4 or 5 alarms in an hour (where each one, I'd look around, try and figure out which pleasure boat it is, laugh, and silence the alarm), I'd stop looking before hitting silence. After 4 or 5 more, I'd dig into the menus and turn off the alarm, and all would be good until the next time I turned on the GPS.
* Yes, I have a poor choice in equipment. A relatively recent Garmin GPS (their answer to my email about filtering out Class B, filtering out stationary targets, or permanently disabling alarms was "no, that's not an option") and a brand new B&G VHF/AIS (their answer to my email about filtering out Class B was "sorry, try your chart plotter vendor."). Since I didn't win PowerBall, it's what I'm stuck with for at least a few more years. When the AIS and Chartplotter get too long in the tooth, I'll buy one with more control over the alarms.

My solution is to do what I've done for 40 years -- disable AIS and keep my eyes open. Without Class B, and without anchored boats, I'd have added a little bit of safety, which is nice. But "alarm fatigue" sets in fast.

I've just gone and looked at your question again, and you're looking for someone who is actually bothered by the alarms. I guess that isn't me -- they no longer bother me! Of course, I'm also no longer distracted by AIS at all.
Harry

That's exactly why I do a ton of research before I buy anything. I'm not rich, and I don't enjoy messing around with products or devices that don't do exactly what I want them to.
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Old 14-01-2016, 16:22   #1117
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun and Moon View Post
No need to win Powerball. Spend an hour reading about OpenCPN - the free, open source navigation/chart plotter program. It supports AIS and allows many options for target tracking, including track only the ones I tell you to, ignore anchored boats, ignore boats traveling under a certain speed, and more. You can run OpenCPN on an old laptop you probably already have. I suggest installing Linux Mint on it first so, as Linux performs much better than Windows on old hardware.

AIS | Official OpenCPN Homepage
AIS | Official OpenCPN Homepage
AIS | Official OpenCPN Homepage
I love the laptop chart plotters. My father, who sails a pilothouse motorsailor, lives and dies by his laptop -- the Garmin chartplotter is purely a backup. Unfortunately, I sail a 34' open cockpit sailboat, and haven't found an effective solution for getting the laptop to the steering station. I have a demo version of Coastal Explorer, and while it doesn't do GPS for more than a few minutes, it is a very useful experiment -- but I find that it is of so little value on the boat that it is relegated to arm chair sailing. A chart plotter at the nav station, at least for the sailing that I do (weekend sailing in familiar waters) doesn't add value. So an OpenCPN solution would have to:
* Be usable at the steering pedestal
* Allow charging during use at the pedestal
* Support some sort of "mount"
* Be reasonably rugged (it is a sailboat, after all!)
* Integrate with my onboard N2K (or 0183) networks
* Be waterproof
* Work in sunlight
* Not be so bloody big that it consumes the small cockpit

I keep hoping. Some Toughbook tablets look close -- but way expensive. Some smart phone/tablet solutions come close as well -- but I'm not convinced that the points above are all (or even mostly) met.
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Old 14-01-2016, 16:40   #1118
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
You don't need a chip installed at birth, you probably already carry your tracking device with you everywhere.



It's called a cell phone. You know that flashlight app that millions of people downloaded onto their phones? It's primary function is tracking data, which they sell.



You don't think someone would actually spend their time coding an app to give out for free without getting paid somehow, do you?

Key word, probably.


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Old 14-01-2016, 17:03   #1119
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Looks like Gil is now home, Dagny is still MIA, and the thread has devolved to a discussion on navigation aids. Who makes the TOD call in the case of a dying thread? (time of death) ☺ Not that I won't stay tuned for any Dagny news however!! I'm a newbie sailor and can see myself doing exactly what precipitated the loss of Dagny, I guess I'll read up carefully on whatever anchorage I'm about to drop the anchor in, that's my main takeaway from the thread. Muddling my way through an incredible amount of invaluable information on CF, I'm hoping to improve my odds slightly when afloat. Nice to see the community rally around a cruiser down on their luck, that's another big takeaway from the thread. Back to reading up on OpenCPN, new radio standards, and fixing leaky keels/bolts. Reading is about all I can do right now, its -12C outside right now, my brass monkey is having a transgender event. Cheers.
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Old 14-01-2016, 17:36   #1120
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dymaxion View Post
Looks like Gil is now home, Dagny is still MIA, and the thread has devolved to a discussion on navigation aids. Who makes the TOD call in the case of a dying thread? (time of death) ☺ Not that I won't stay tuned for any Dagny news however!! I'm a newbie sailor and can see myself doing exactly what precipitated the loss of Dagny, I guess I'll read up carefully on whatever anchorage I'm about to drop the anchor in, that's my main takeaway from the thread. Muddling my way through an incredible amount of invaluable information on CF, I'm hoping to improve my odds slightly when afloat. Nice to see the community rally around a cruiser down on their luck, that's another big takeaway from the thread. Back to reading up on OpenCPN, new radio standards, and fixing leaky keels/bolts. Reading is about all I can do right now, its -12C outside right now, my brass monkey is having a transgender event. Cheers.

Your main take away lesson from this is to never leave your boat in an uncertain anchorage if you have a questionable anchor that has not been reliably set nor visually inspected and your engine is not working. And definitely don't spend an entire day ashore on the internet in this situation. Stay with the boat, fix the engine and make sure you are well anchored before going ashore.

I'll probably get a lot of crap for the above, but you are genuinely looking for learning, and should not be steered wrong by "nice" people.

Mark
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Old 14-01-2016, 17:45   #1121
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Your main take away lesson from this is to never leave your boat in an uncertain anchorage if you have a questionable anchor that has not been reliably set nor visually inspected and your engine is not working. And definitely don't spend an entire day ashore on the internet in this situation. Stay with the boat, fix the engine and make sure you are well anchored before going ashore.

I'll probably get a lot of crap for the above, but you are genuinely looking for learning, and should not be steered wrong by "nice" people.

Mark

Lot of crap, hell no. Good advice from a seasoned cruiser.


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Old 14-01-2016, 17:54   #1122
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Your main take away lesson from this is to never leave your boat in an uncertain anchorage if you have a questionable anchor that has not been reliably set nor visually inspected and your engine is not working. And definitely don't spend an entire day ashore on the internet in this situation. Stay with the boat, fix the engine and make sure you are well anchored before going ashore.

I'll probably get a lot of crap for the above, but you are genuinely looking for learning, and should not be steered wrong by "nice" people.

Mark
I agree, in my mind there are probably 5 or 6 good lessons to be learned here, but I'm not going to appear to flog poor Gil in public. My heart goes out to him, even though the series of mistakes made were entirely preventable. I firmly believe in Murphy's Law from past experience, much more so than anyone I know.
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Old 14-01-2016, 20:28   #1123
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Lin and Larry Pardey are known to have to be towed into some ports due to not having an engine. I'm guessing the wait for tow was not always short.

Those litigious individuals hoping to use AIS for lawsuits might investigate DGPS.

It's the cure for selective availability.
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Old 14-01-2016, 20:48   #1124
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dymaxion View Post
Looks like Gil is now home, Dagny is still MIA, and the thread has devolved to a discussion on navigation aids. Who makes the TOD call in the case of a dying thread? (time of death) ☺ Not that I won't stay tuned for any Dagny news however!! I'm a newbie sailor and can see myself doing exactly what precipitated the loss of Dagny, I guess I'll read up carefully on whatever anchorage I'm about to drop the anchor in, that's my main takeaway from the thread. Muddling my way through an incredible amount of invaluable information on CF, I'm hoping to improve my odds slightly when afloat. Nice to see the community rally around a cruiser down on their luck, that's another big takeaway from the thread. Back to reading up on OpenCPN, new radio standards, and fixing leaky keels/bolts. Reading is about all I can do right now, its -12C outside right now, my brass monkey is having a transgender event. Cheers.
Actually, that's an excellent takeaway, and I think there's more, as well. The very beginning of the awfulness for Gil was getting seasick and being in a position where he HAD to continue, but his body was unwilling. Unless you already know you are not vulnerable to it, it is so common for people their first time at sea, that you should at least have some over the counter treatment against seasickness aboard if you are singlehanding.

As ColemJ wrote, it is excellent to dive the anchor where possible. We all anchor sometimes in unfamiliar anchorages, and sometimes the water is too cold or too crocodiley to dive to check it anyhow, so another lesson is simply to NOT LEAVE THE BOAT until you feel certain--rather than hopeful-- the anchor is set and the boat will stay put. Gil was in an awkward position, required to to check in and without his engine working, could not back down hard enough to drag. IIRC, he did try to use his backed mainsail to back down, but it did not tug hard enough. But, using the engine to back down on the anchor, he would have dragged there because of the thin sand over hardpack. It is one of the bottom situations where you can make sure you have to leave, with soupy mud another. That info was available, according to another poster, via active captain.

Another lesson is to use good anchoring gear, and buoy an anchor you have to jettison and then go retrieve it as soon as possible. Good new generation anchors are expensive, and it was a shame Gil lost his so soon. Nonetheless, good anchoring gear is extremely important. I'd suggest your taking some time and read the CF thread called "Photos of Anchors Setting", started by Noelex. It has a lot of good discussion. Don't try to go through it all in one sitting, but keep after it till you've finished. It is mostly pictures taken in the Mediterranean, but shows the performances of a number of different anchors, well known brands. Some of the pics are amazing.

And yeah, I'm still one of those who thinks Gil probably tortures himself with all the couldas and shouldas, and am sorry it happened. I even hope he gets Dagny back one day: he's really paid a hard price for being a newbie.

I hope for you your brass monkey returns to normal soon!
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Old 14-01-2016, 21:46   #1125
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Your main take away lesson from this is to never leave your boat in an uncertain anchorage if you have a questionable anchor that has not been reliably set nor visually inspected and your engine is not working. And definitely don't spend an entire day ashore on the internet in this situation. Stay with the boat, fix the engine and make sure you are well anchored before going ashore.

I'll probably get a lot of crap for the above, but you are genuinely looking for learning, and should not be steered wrong by "nice" people.

Mark
There is nothing whatsoever wrong with constructive, respectful criticism. On the contrary, when disasters happen, it is really useful to know exactly what went wrong, so that not only the victim, but the rest of us, can learn something.

It is important, however, to know the difference between constructive, respectful criticism, and what some people enjoy doing when someone has suffered a disaster.
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