Tragedy Strikes.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Exile

If you're worried about being tracked, most if not all of the transponder units allow you to turn your transmissions off and operate in receive-only mode. You can also just buy an AIS receiver -- much cheaper but you obviously lose some collision avoidance capability without the ability to also transmit.

Not really worried about being tracked just not something I want to be a part of while sailing. I appreciate the info on the AIS receiver, haven't felt the need for one but who knows in the future.


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[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by smj

You've made my mind up. If this scenario is going to overlap into the pleasure vessel use of AIS I want nothing to do with it. We go cruising to get away from the controlling aspects of what has become normal everyday life. I hope to god I'm taking your post in the wrong way.


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Wow you must be a pretty important guy that you don't want anyone seeing where you are or wanted perhaps

Is there a reward for you?

[smj]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

Wow you must be a pretty important guy that you don't want anyone seeing where you are or wanted perhaps

Is there a reward for you?

Important no, wanted no......well maybe by my wife and hopefully the dog as well! We have cruised for years without AIS and really don't feel the need now. Doesn't fit into our definition of what we want while cruising.


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[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by smj

Important no, wanted no......well maybe by my wife and hopefully the dog as well! We have cruised for years without AIS and really don't feel the need now. Doesn't fit into our definition of what we want while cruising.


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[socaldmax]

People also sailed for centuries without GPS, chart plotters or RADAR, but some people think all of that stuff is pretty useful.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by smj

You've made my mind up. If this scenario is going to overlap into the pleasure vessel use of AIS I want nothing to do with it. We go cruising to get away from the controlling aspects of what has become normal everyday life. I hope to god I'm taking your post in the wrong way.


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Governments want to be all seeing and all knowing. They get nervous when they aren't. The best counter intelligence in a highly monitored environment is through obfuscation. Can be applied in communication and signals. I think I shouldn't say anything more.

[smj]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

People also sailed for centuries without GPS, chart plotters or RADAR, but some people think all of that stuff is pretty useful.

And I'm sure AIS is useful when used responsibly. I feel slightly troubled when I hear of cruisers thinking it's prudent to run their AIS in a secure anchorage or at the dock. Whatever makes you feel comfortable is what you should do. Everyone has their own comfort level.


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[monte]

SMJ, all of the cruisers that transmit their AIS at the dock or at anchor, are also using AIS as receivers. Surely if it bothered them/us to see too many AIS signals they would turn off their transmissions? Why anyone would particularly care if there's a few, or a lot more AIS targets displayed on there plotter is a bit beyond my understanding. Every marina or anchorage we enter has a lot of AIS targets displayed and it's never an issue. The only thing I can think of is that those people having issues must have alarms set to always on, or messages popping up on their plotters. That would annoy the hell out of me also, but the simple solution is to turn them off or set them with reasonable parameters for the sailing area. Maybe someone who is actually bothered by too many AIS targets could explain why they are bothered, but as far as I can tell it seems to be users being bothered by 'their' alarms.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by monte

SMJ, all of the cruisers that transmit their AIS at the dock or at anchor, are also using AIS as receivers. Surely if it bothered them/us to see too many AIS signals they would turn off their transmissions? Why anyone would particularly care if there's a few, or a lot more AIS targets displayed on there plotter is a bit beyond my understanding. Every marina or anchorage we enter has a lot of AIS targets displayed and it's never an issue. The only thing I can think of is that those people having issues must have alarms set to always on, or messages popping up on their plotters. That would annoy the hell out of me also, but the simple solution is to turn them off or set them with reasonable parameters for the sailing area. Maybe someone who is actually bothered by too many AIS targets could explain why they are bothered, but as far as I can tell it seems to be users being bothered by 'their' alarms.

Well, it's probably not going to bother anyone already tied up to the dock to have their AIS transmitting. I just figured people forget to turn it off, or the system is hard wired so it's difficult to turn off. They don't draw much power. I did have one boater tell me he purposely kept it on because he lived far from his boat and wanted to keep tabs on it. I agree with smj that the better practice would be to turn off transmissions at the dock or at a secure anchorage, but still think it's not a bad idea to keep it on at an anchorage where there's any risk of getting hit. But I also concur with Monte that it's not that big of a deal when you approach a busy harbor. Generally all the docked or anchored boats show up in concentrated clusters on the plotter, and when you inevitably start zooming in there's really not much chance of confusion or annoyance (assuming alarms are disabled).

Fwiw, I had an interesting experience sailing along the Carolina coast one night with brisk following winds. Pretty busy shipping route, and my AIS receiver picked up a fast moving merchant vessel coming up behind me to overtake. His course happened to be right on my same rhumb line. Don't recall if it showed on my radar (maybe because radome is on front of mast & ship was directly behind?), but the AIS prompted me to call the ship on the radio. The cap immediately responded, said he did not see me on his radar, did not have a visual (I was properly lit), and would alter course around me (I was stand on). So this incident further convinced me that having an AIS receiver is all upside given the cost, and having a transponder (that you can turn off) is even better. But I also understand smj's instinct for keeping things simple, and it sounds like he has plenty of experience doing without the add'l electronics.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by smj

Important no, wanted no......well maybe by my wife and hopefully the dog as well! We have cruised for years without AIS and really don't feel the need now. Doesn't fit into our definition of what we want while cruising.


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[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by smj

And I'm sure AIS is useful when used responsibly. I feel slightly troubled when I hear of cruisers thinking it's prudent to run their AIS in a secure anchorage or at the dock. Whatever makes you feel comfortable is what you should do. Everyone has their own comfort level.


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AIS is in fact a good idea while anchored. For rather obvious reasons. But I agree with you it should not be obligated by law. Already two countries in Asia (Thailand and now Indonesia) have required that cruisers transmit 24/7 regardless of where they are. I don't like that at all. Basically it is indeed used as a means of control, not safety. And in some areas of Indo I consider it downright dangerous. The penalties are beginning to be enforced in Thailand and max out at 5 years in prison!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga

AIS is in fact a good idea while anchored. For rather obvious reasons. But I agree with you it should not be obligated by law. Already two countries in Asia (Thailand and now Indonesia) have required that cruisers transmit 24/7 regardless of where they are. I don't like that at all. Basically it is indeed used as a means of control, not safety. And in some areas of Indo I consider it downright dangerous. The penalties are beginning to be enforced in Thailand and max out at 5 years in prison!

I agree with those who are troubled by being tracked 24/7, and the way it's done in Thailand and Indonesia is unfortunately a harbinger of things to come all over the world, I'm afraid. I'm actually surprised that Homeland Security haven't pushed through similar rules in the U.S.

What's even worse is that anyone can open Marinetraffic.com and see where you are, so it's not just governments who know all when you're transmitting AIS (and that's bad enough!).

I swallow these feelings, however, for the sake of all of the advantages. I don't use social media (at all!), and I don't advertise my boat's name, so that helps to maintain at least a superficial modicum of privacy.


As to receiving AIS, however -- I think this is a no-brainer. This is such a quantum leap in collision avoidance, and for almost no money, I can't imagine why anyone would forgo that.

[Sandero]

Question:

Would it be possible for AIS receivers to have a setting which would filter out targets which are NOT on a collision course? The software would follow and compute and update as vessels in range changed course or speed. Some would "go off" when there was no longer a collision situation in the making... and some would "go on" when they became a potential collision????

Obviously this would be a setting that the user programmed (turn on) when there was too much distracting clutter on the screen.

Would this make sense?

[colemj]

Originally Posted by monte

SMJ, all of the cruisers that transmit their AIS at the dock or at anchor, are also using AIS as receivers. Surely if it bothered them/us to see too many AIS signals they would turn off their transmissions? Why anyone would particularly care if there's a few, or a lot more AIS targets displayed on there plotter is a bit beyond my understanding. Every marina or anchorage we enter has a lot of AIS targets displayed and it's never an issue. The only thing I can think of is that those people having issues must have alarms set to always on, or messages popping up on their plotters. That would annoy the hell out of me also, but the simple solution is to turn them off or set them with reasonable parameters for the sailing area. Maybe someone who is actually bothered by too many AIS targets could explain why they are bothered, but as far as I can tell it seems to be users being bothered by 'their' alarms.

I too can't see any issue with AIS active on anchored or docked boats - they simply show up in clusters close to land and pose no confusion. In fact, seeing them often helps us choose where we will anchor. I also don't understand the alarm issue - I haven't seen a unit, plotter, or program that did not easily filter out these boats.

However, there is one issue with it - the more targets there are, the slower the plotter/program runs and responds to input. Around places like the Panama canal, we have had our plotter and apps slow to a crawl dealing with 200-300 targets. This too is manageable by setting the active distance shorter and ignoring boats not moving.

We don't keep ours on at anchor or docked, but I have no issue with the practice.

Mark

[Salty Mike]

Originally Posted by smj

Important no, wanted no......well maybe by my wife and hopefully the dog as well! We have cruised for years without AIS and really don't feel the need now. Doesn't fit into our definition of what we want while cruising.


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Wanna know which one wants (loves) you most?
Just lock them both in a closet for a few hours then see which one is happy to see you when you let them out.