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Old 12-01-2016, 09:10   #991
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by FSMike View Post
So what? So a strobe is usually considered to be a distress signal. //
Appropriate karma for that kind of behavior is people failing to respond to your strobe light when you ARE in trouble.
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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
There ARE MANY better ways of tracking your vessel WITHOUT annoying everyone in the anchorage.
Amen to that.

Let us also not forget that boats don't make a habit of wondering off on their own.
We don't need to go nuts and turn our boats into a floating circus on the off-chance we'll end up looking for a lost boat.

Invest in a decent anchor / ground tackle, not a strobe

After annoying enough people, that light might be the reason your boat is no longer where you thought it might be
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Old 12-01-2016, 09:41   #992
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by monte View Post
We always leave our AIS on. Well it's wired directly so we dont have a lot of choice, but if we did we would still leave it on. Users complaining about alarms should probably sit down with the manual and get to know their AIS unit a little better. Audible alarms on ours are generally permanently disabled. I'm not sure why you would need an audible alarm if you are keeping watch anyway. We would enable the audio alarm when well offshore. Apart from the audible alarm the only alarm is a change of colour to red, of AIS targets. Targets never clutter the plotter screen when on the appropriate zoom level. I would prefer others at anchor leave theirs on as well, but I'm not opposed to people turning them off either.
"sit down with the manual" -- I've spent a LOT of time with the manual, as well as emailing the vendors (B&G and Garmin). It's not a lack of knowledge.

"Audible alarms ... permanently disabled." -- I'd like to. Garmin has decided that is unsafe, and so re-enables audible alarms every time the unit powers up. Sure, it's only 10 button presses or so to turn them back off. Next summer, I'm going to try to use the alarm parameters to effectively disable it -- set the distance and time to minimum values. If it only alarms on vessels passing within .1 miles, with a time to CPA under 1 minute, it shouldn't be too much of an annoyance (but here on the Chesapeake, even that happens a fair amount).

"Not sure why you would need an alarm anyway" -- well, yes, I've used the MK 1 eyeball for several decades. Given that thought, I'm not sure why there's even a reason to have AIS at all.... oh, wait, it's 'cause we are all human and can overlook things. Freighters can move fast, and if they are behind your jib, they can go from the horizon to "close" in a hurry. Yes, I've never collided with one, but they have certainly startled me. An adequate lookout would do as well, but an alarm is a good thing too.

Seriously, I'm not sure what value an AIS input has if you don't use the alarm. Unless you make a habit of spending a lot of time looking at your GPS (in open waters, I don't), then targets turning red aren't much value. Especially if there are 20 targets within a mile of you, and half of them are red. And if, as you suggest, you set the scale such that there aren't many targets, a freighter 5 minutes away (ie, 2 miles away) probably won't even show on the screen. I guess you could find value in knowing a freighter's name when hailing them, but I've never had an issue with "north bound tug and barge off Thomas Point, this is...."

Harry
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Old 12-01-2016, 09:46   #993
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
My AIS is definitely on at anchor, people get hit at anchor too.
Now being on at the dock is silly, but My Vesper by default I think only alarms if the CPA is within a mile, and non moving objects, don't have a CPA, so none have set off my Alarm.
Underway, mine will always be on, partially because I have two AIS MOB transmitters on our harnesses.
AIS at anchor/pier, especially Class B, is a big part of why I've turned it off. And so, if your idea behind leaving it on is so that no one hits you at anchor, realize it has resulted not only in my not seeing you at anchor, but not seeing you ever.

Non-moving objects have a CPA. The very first alarm I received on my newly installed AIS took me a few minutes to figure out -- until I realized it was the anchored freighter 2 miles dead ahead of me.

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Old 12-01-2016, 10:13   #994
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

I have yet to have a non moving boat set off my AIS, when I wasn't moving either, but I have had ones quite a ways off, in the channel, but momentarily pointing at me, set it off.
This is about as productive as complaining about all the idiots wanting a "radio check" on 16, yes they are annoying, but I'm not turning off my VHF because of it.
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Old 12-01-2016, 11:46   #995
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Harry we probably have very different setups. For us the AIS is displayed on the plotter at the helm, as well as on the PC at the Nav desk. Glancing at the plotter every 15 minutes minimum is just as much a part of our regular sailing routine as much as looking around the horizon or at the sails etc. in dense traffic we are likely to be permanently at the helm and monitoring AIS as well as the charts and possibly radar. So an audible alarm isnt really needed in our situation, although we do turn it on when offshore. I can imagine if the AIS display were down below that you may rely more on audible alarms and they would be painful to be forever muting in condensed areas. Muting alarms leads to crew complacency, often muting before reading what the alarm is for...
Having an AIS unit that can't be set to permanently disable audio alarms would drive me crazy, although disabling them would soon become a part of the regular startup routines
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Old 12-01-2016, 11:57   #996
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by socaldmax View Post
I don't think strobes are a good idea at all. I was camped near a guy who had a strobe for a camp marker light, about 30' off the ground. The strobe was so annoying to everyone in camp, he nearly got lynched when they finally told him to shut the thing off.

They're astoundingly annoying to everyone within range of it, especially those trying to sleep but who can still see the strobe through their eyelids.
A few years ago, a new strobe light was put in on a nearby communication tower. They increased the brightness of the strobe and its frequency which caused MANY complaints. Our hours is about 5 miles from that tower and even we could notice the light. It was REALLY bad if we had a low layer of clouds that reflected that strobe because it just lit up the place. Eventually the tower owners changed the frequency and dialed down the power. I never would have guessed that a light that far away could be an issue. In our case, since we don't have as much light pollution as in a town/city, the flashy light was that much more noticeable.

Later,
Dan
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Old 12-01-2016, 12:03   #997
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by sailingharry View Post
"sit down with the manual" -- I've spent a LOT of time with the manual, as well as emailing the vendors (B&G and Garmin). It's not a lack of knowledge.

Then it is a poor choice of equipment.

We have two different AIS systems aboard feeding seven different displays/charting apps and all of them - the AIS's themselves as well as the plotters and programs they feed - allow us complete control over if, and under what circumstances, the alarms go off.

Frankly, we just keep the alarms turned off, as I don't see much use for them for us because we always have someone on watch (and they stay turned off when equipment is rebooted).

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Old 12-01-2016, 12:07   #998
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I have yet to have a non moving boat set off my AIS, when I wasn't moving either, but I have had ones quite a ways off, in the channel, but momentarily pointing at me, set it off.
This is about as productive as complaining about all the idiots wanting a "radio check" on 16, yes they are annoying, but I'm not turning off my VHF because of it.

I bet there is an alarm setting to ignore targets moving less than X knots. I know there is on all our gear.

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Old 12-01-2016, 12:42   #999
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

I leave my AIS on at anchor, but turn it off at the dock. There should also be a way to change the alert distance on your unit
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Old 12-01-2016, 13:00   #1000
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by alctel View Post
I leave my AIS on at anchor, but turn it off at the dock. There should also be a way to change the alert distance on your unit
Distance and time on mine, and easy to turn alarms on/off. Leaving AIS on at anchor but off at the dock sounds reasonable.
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Old 12-01-2016, 13:24   #1001
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Anti-seasick meds would have had Gil in fit condition to start his motor, so he could get into the harbor. Possibly, had he not lost his Mantus, he may not have dragged. He anchored in a spot with reputedly poor holding, that some posters said was easy to find out about, but about which he was possibly unaware. It's all part of a chain of events that led to Dagny going missing.

An LED anchor light with a light sensor so it comes on automatically would have made Dagny visible at night. Some boats use two, one at the masthead, another off the boom. All around whites. Visible over 2 mi., and the pair create a pattern you learn; you're measures the distance between the two, and you can tell from across the bay that your very own boat is still there, and don't worry.

Most people will never have their boat go walkabout where they can't see it.

Our AIS will stay off at anchor. You're all right that an AIS that was on would have made Dagny more findable, and we'd all like to find her and give her back to Gil. But we've stout anchoring gear that we trust. I think it would be overkill to run your AIS all the time, pestering other people's AIS with the alarm. Ships seem to be able to display their anchor ball or not under command symbols, but I am not seeing them on boats in marinas or anchored. Just more ruddy clutter on the screen.

Maybe you can ask yourself if you're over-reacting a bit on this. Far more worth while if you spend this much energy working out a strategy for lighting your dinghy at night.

Ann
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Old 12-01-2016, 15:06   #1002
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Anti-seasick meds would have had Gil in fit condition to start his motor, so he could get into the harbor. Possibly, had he not lost his Mantus, he may not have dragged. He anchored in a spot with reputedly poor holding, that some posters said was easy to find out about, but about which he was possibly unaware. It's all part of a chain of events that led to Dagny going missing.

An LED anchor light with a light sensor so it comes on automatically would have made Dagny visible at night. Some boats use two, one at the masthead, another off the boom. All around whites. Visible over 2 mi., and the pair create a pattern you learn; you're measures the distance between the two, and you can tell from across the bay that your very own boat is still there, and don't worry.

Most people will never have their boat go walkabout where they can't see it.

Our AIS will stay off at anchor. You're all right that an AIS that was on would have made Dagny more findable, and we'd all like to find her and give her back to Gil. But we've stout anchoring gear that we trust. I think it would be overkill to run your AIS all the time, pestering other people's AIS with the alarm. Ships seem to be able to display their anchor ball or not under command symbols, but I am not seeing them on boats in marinas or anchored. Just more ruddy clutter on the screen.

Maybe you can ask yourself if you're over-reacting a bit on this. Far more worth while if you spend this much energy working out a strategy for lighting your dinghy at night.

Ann

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Old 12-01-2016, 15:26   #1003
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

I see having your AIS on at anchor as the same as having your anchor light, mine is on a photocell, I light the cockpit, but not yet another anchor light on the stern, but do see the point, I will in the future. I don't want a collision, either by something bigger or a drunk in a dink, or a fishing boat for that matter.
I even have a tri-color on my Dinghy, but mostly to keep the FWC off my butt.
If people at anchor are setting off your AIS and that bothers you, learn how to set the filters, or turn yours off, silence the alarms etc.

One of the first things I learned investigating aircraft accidents is that accidents are always a chain of events, one link missing, no accident. We all have far more close calls than we realize, just one link is missing.


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Old 12-01-2016, 15:38   #1004
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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I'm telling you that within 15 minutes of him turning that strobe on, everyone was so on edge and angry about it searing into their eyeballs even inside their RVs, with their eyes closed, that the entire camp demanded it be shut off.

It was just like someone coming into your quiet anchorage and playing Mariachi music at 180 dB. There was no ignoring it, and it kept everyone awake.

Is that clear enough? Perhaps a weaker strobe might not have been so annoying, but then it wouldn't be visible at such long range.

There ARE MANY better ways of tracking your vessel WITHOUT annoying everyone in the anchorage.
Socal, I'll try to put Gils situation into simpler terms.
He was not anchored in a campground full of tents.
Secondly he was in a open ocean roadstead.
Thirdly, his plan was to be back before dark.
Fourth, the strobe on my masthead cant be seen, a t a l l , in daylight hours when 300 yds from my boat....unless you actually search for it.

And as for it being seen as a distress signal. I would have thought that orange smoke coming from a vessel anchored at sea was a more appropriate signal and that the many tri-color anchor strobe masthead lights sold in the US (where mine came from) were for night time use.
And if I fell overboard, no dinghy in sight, getting to the strobe switch might be hard.
Gils boat, anchored where it was in daylight hours o n l y and with a low intensity strobe would have alarmed no-one.

A few too many hypothercisers around.
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Old 12-01-2016, 16:02   #1005
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Socal, I'll try to put Gils situation into simpler terms.

He was not anchored in a campground full of tents.

Secondly he was in a open ocean roadstead.

Thirdly, his plan was to be back before dark.

Fourth, the strobe on my masthead cant be seen, a t a l l , in daylight hours when 300 yds from my boat....unless you actually search for it.



And as for it being seen as a distress signal. I would have thought that orange smoke coming from a vessel anchored at sea was a more appropriate signal and that the many tri-color anchor strobe masthead lights sold in the US (where mine came from) were for night time use.

And if I fell overboard, no dinghy in sight, getting to the strobe switch might be hard.

Gils boat, anchored where it was in daylight hours o n l y and with a low intensity strobe would have alarmed no-one.



A few too many hypothercisers around.

Inland rules state the strobe light is to used by vessels in distress.
http://www.uscgboating.org/library/b...bscscan75b.pdf


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