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Old 01-01-2016, 15:02   #661
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout View Post
Gil's email is gil@keskydee.com

Have a wonderful 2016,

Chaya
Chaya, just sent you a PM.
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Old 01-01-2016, 15:52   #662
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Summary of discussion points to date, or append your own:
  • Talk about original position of the boat.
  • Speculation about drift of boat.
  • Calculations concerning drift of boat.
  • Offers of paypal contributions and how to contact Gil.
  • Speculations and judgement about Gil's character and sailing experience.
  • Pretentiousness about what Gil should have learned.
  • Speculation that the boat might have been stolen.
  • Information about that anchorage including rock bottom/3 inch sand, 5 knt tide.
  • Suggestion to check the bottom of anchorage for anchor, shafe etc.
  • Suggestion to NOT dive on bottom of anchorage due to rip.
  • Advice about who to contact to help (local fisherman, USCG, embassy, Police, SSCA, CAP, EAA etc.)
  • Speculation about ideal time for AIS and ECS.
  • Positive encouragement to not give up.
  • Positive comments about everyone coming together to help Gil.
  • ONLY report of sighting: Dagny was spotted tonight December 23rd at 5:30pm, reported by the USCG, at 27-03.7N 79-16.1W. 24hrs after drifting off.
  • Suggestions on salvage rights and how to find someone to help rescue boat.
  • Suggestion to lie to a fisherman to take you out, salvage rights protected etc.
  • News that Keith Cooper is ready to contact Gil and help
  • Weather forecast.
  • Personal stories from people who also lost boats in the past.
  • Personal stories about other places to anchor in West End.
  • Personal stories about nothing related to this topic.
  • Argument - these days Bahamian trust and moral compass of fisherman.
  • Speculation about Gil's cell phone being a beacon for a ping of GPS location.
  • 10 hour search news from Gil w/ Keith Cooper.
  • Arguments about whether flying off coast is a good idea.
  • Discussion on how to get on the boat once found w/o losing your own life.
  • Long discussions on tracking hardware to put on a sailboat -- Spot, cellphone, inreach, AIS, Track Trace, etc.
  • Talk about how writing is cathartic and book deals.
  • "what I would do" argument vs "you don't know what you're talking about."
  • Comments about philosophy "you don't know what you're talking about."
  • Are thieves intelligent?
  • Wonderful video of a seaplane landing, people walking around sharks to see an abandoned sailboat.
  • Talk about Gil's engine and experience with engines in general incl dink engines as aux.
  • More wasted discussion about where to anchor on WE and their experience.
  • Discussion on sweeps and oars.
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Old 01-01-2016, 16:04   #663
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
Summary of discussion points to date, or append your own:
  • Talk about original position of the boat.
  • Speculation about drift of boat.
  • Calculations concerning drift of boat.
  • Offers of paypal contributions and how to contact Gil.
  • Speculations and judgement about Gil's character and sailing experience.
  • Pretentiousness about what Gil should have learned.
  • Speculation that the boat might have been stolen.
  • Information about that anchorage including rock bottom/3 inch sand, 5 knt tide.
  • Suggestion to check the bottom of anchorage for anchor, shafe etc.
  • Suggestion to NOT dive on bottom of anchorage due to rip.
  • Advice about who to contact to help (local fisherman, USCG, embassy, Police, SSCA, CAP, EAA etc.)
  • Speculation about ideal time for AIS and ECS.
  • Positive encouragement to not give up.
  • Positive comments about everyone coming together to help Gil.
  • ONLY report of sighting: Dagny was spotted tonight December 23rd at 5:30pm, reported by the USCG, at 27-03.7N 79-16.1W. 24hrs after drifting off.
  • Suggestions on salvage rights and how to find someone to help rescue boat.
  • Suggestion to lie to a fisherman to take you out, salvage rights protected etc.
  • News that Keith Cooper is ready to contact Gil and help
  • Weather forecast.
  • Personal stories from people who also lost boats in the past.
  • Personal stories about other places to anchor in West End.
  • Personal stories about nothing related to this topic.
  • Argument - these days Bahamian trust and moral compass of fisherman.
  • Speculation about Gil's cell phone being a beacon for a ping of GPS location.
  • 10 hour search news from Gil w/ Keith Cooper.
  • Arguments about whether flying off coast is a good idea.
  • Discussion on how to get on the boat once found w/o losing your own life.
  • Long discussions on tracking hardware to put on a sailboat -- Spot, cellphone, inreach, AIS, Track Trace, etc.
  • Talk about how writing is cathartic and book deals.
  • "what I would do" argument vs "you don't know what you're talking about."
  • Comments about philosophy "you don't know what you're talking about."
  • Are thieves intelligent?
  • Wonderful video of a seaplane landing, people walking around sharks to see an abandoned sailboat.
  • Talk about Gil's engine and experience with engines in general incl dink engines as aux.
  • More wasted discussion about where to anchor on WE and their experience.
  • Discussion on sweeps and oars.
That's cute. Almost nails it. Wish you had numbered them. If I were to add one thing, it would be that someone (cough, cough) suggested getting airborne pronto. If numbered, that contribution would fall between numbers 4 and 5.
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Old 01-01-2016, 16:14   #664
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pirate Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Fixed it for you!
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Old 01-01-2016, 17:29   #665
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Boy......we are a dysfunctional lot even when trying to help a fellow sailor.....
Its a kind of interesting if you look at it pragmatically and as a sample for other forum topics:

I'd say only 1% of the posts are directly actionable although they haven't born success. They all relate to:
  • Putting the OP in touch with local organizations or authorities that can look out for his boat.
  • Putting the OP directly in touch with local people who can actively search for the boat. (Kieth Cooper thanks to Ocean Girl).
The only other:
  • Calculating drift within the first 24-48 hours to help guide this early process.
The other 99% hasn't been useful or was beyond means (such as flying).
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Old 01-01-2016, 17:33   #666
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Salty, you are magnificent :-).

I think another lesson that has come out of this is Cruisers Forum needs a dedicated sub forum for lost or abandoned vessels. This sub forum would be strictly about vessels in distress, last known coordinates, drift analysis, gear aboard etc. etc. be nice to break it up into lives aboard/no lives aboard for priority traffic.
We can then post a thread on a general forum where folks can discuss what they would do, ideas for recovery, solutions etc etc.
this may cramp certain sailors styles but it would greatly help the people who are working for the recovery. As some have pointed out, the chats, though annoying, frustrating, and inappropriate, are not outside the CF rules and those posters have every right to have their say, to speak their mind.

Mods, We need a sub forum designed to help sailors in distress. Pm on the way
I've been out of Internet range today, but am trying to get an update for Dagny location, sorry for the lag time on updates.
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Old 01-01-2016, 17:39   #667
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
Its a kind of interesting if you look at it pragmatically and as a sample for other forum topics:

I'd say only 1% of the posts are directly actionable although they haven't born success. They all relate to:
  • Putting the OP in touch with local organizations or authorities that can look out for his boat.
  • Putting the OP directly in touch with local people who can actively search for the boat. (Kieth Cooper thanks to Ocean Girl).
The only other:
  • Calculating drift within the first 24-48 hours to help guide this early process.
The other 99% hasn't been useful or was beyond means (such as flying).
But you have glaringly overlooked the financial and moral support that has come from the generosity of the CF community.
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Old 01-01-2016, 17:59   #668
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout View Post
But you have glaringly overlooked the financial and moral support that has come from the generosity of the CF community.
Yes I have, because it didn't put him directly in touch with retrieving his boat.

As a side:

I don't think he ever said he was broke, only that didn't have any money on him. Maybe I'm wrong.

And putting him in touch with organizations or people who can help I think is just as morally supportive.

Summary CF puts people into a network that can result in connections to new people and organizations who can actively help.
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Old 01-01-2016, 18:40   #669
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

I would add two more, Salty:
* Discussion of how thread drift on lost boat/rescue threads is bad
* Discussion of what makes a post relevant and about how the majority of posts on this thread aren't relevant to directly recovering Gil's boat

Does no one appreciate the irony that the above is also not relevant to recovery of Gil's vessel?

In all seriousness though (since the thread has drifted in this direction), OceanGirl and mods, I would not discount how the volume of posts in this thread kept Gil's situation top-of-mind, generated both cash donations and time donations to help him out, and drew more people in and made them aware of the situation. Maybe all lost boat/rescue threads should be a sticky for a period of a week in order to keep this kind of attention?

Also, in fairness to the thread drifters, Gil as OP never asked for this thread to be his rescue thread, that has come from other posters. He posted a story that mourned his loss. Posts that provided moral support, related similar stories to assure Gil that this had happened to other people, etc., were most likely useful to him from an emotional standpoint. Even posts that discussed what could have been done differently, were all in the bounds of this thread because it never had a clear purpose. This is often the case with threads on CF. So - having a dedicated rescue thread that is mod-enforced and only about estimated positions and recovery efforts would be an excellent idea, just to make the purpose clear.
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Old 01-01-2016, 18:58   #670
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brownoarsman View Post
I would add two more, Salty:
* Discussion of how thread drift on lost boat/rescue threads is bad
* Discussion of what makes a post relevant and about how the majority of posts on this thread aren't relevant to directly recovering Gil's boat

Does no one appreciate the irony that the above is also not relevant to recovery of Gil's vessel?
No I don't, because meta-thinking keeps the topic focused and gives the floor to those that DO know how to help, and this has somehow (as I have learned) been people on here with vast experience in the field knowing organizations and people that can provide some meaningful "action". People like Ocean Girl (my opinion).

Quote:
Originally Posted by brownoarsman View Post
...Maybe all lost boat/rescue threads should be a sticky for a period of a week in order to keep this kind of attention?
Good idea, but perhaps in a sub-forum as mentioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brownoarsman View Post
Also, in fairness to the thread drifters, Gil as OP never asked for this thread to be his rescue thread, that has come from other posters.
In all fairness, when someone is devastated and doesn't know what to do, what makes you think that person would know exactly what to ask for, especially in an embarrassing situation? The subtext of helping, I think, speaks for itself, and finding his boat was what he wanted and had in the front of his mind. When a person is drowning do you expect them to cry out, "Can you toss me that orange ring, you know, the one next to the locker on the left, but first tie off the line to the cleat using a half hitch?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by brownoarsman View Post
...Having a dedicated rescue thread that is mod-enforced and only about estimated positions and recovery efforts would be an excellent idea, just to make the purpose clear.
Yeah, this has been brought up too many times. We need to do something.
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Old 01-01-2016, 19:12   #671
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
No I don't, because meta-thinking keeps the topic focused and gives the floor to those that DO know how to help, and this has somehow (as I have learned) been people on here with vast experience in the field knowing organizations and people that can provide some meaningful "action". People like Ocean Girl (my opinion).



Good idea, but perhaps in a sub-forum as mentioned.



In all fairness, when someone is devastated and doesn't know what to do, what makes you think that person would know exactly what to ask for, especially in an embarrassing situation? The subtext of helping, I think, speaks for itself, and finding his boat was what he wanted and had in the front of his mind. When a person is drowning do you expect them to cry out, "Can you toss me that orange ring, you know, the one next to the locker on the left, but first tie off the line to the cleat using a half hitch?"



Yeah, this has been brought up too many times. We need to do something.

IMO this topic is serving its purpose in that it has put word out on Gils boat.

I'm guessing even the trolls have inspired compassion by their gibes.

Now it is a waiting game. Hopefully the ground tackle is intact and she will bite somewhere soon.





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Old 01-01-2016, 19:17   #672
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
In all fairness, when someone is devastated and doesn't know what to do, what makes you think that person would know exactly what to ask for, especially in an embarrassing situation?

Yeah, this has been brought up too many times. We need to do something.
At least CF can agree on something (the need for a dedicated rescue area)!

Regarding the first bit of the above quote, this thread has been going on for a while, Gil has posted about what he's learned relative to AIS and boat tracking that will ensure that this doesn't happen again, and has even asked for input: "The boat was well prepared, if not, I would like to know how it wasn't, so that I do not make the same mistake next time." I think there's a fair bit of ambiguity there around the purpose of this thread. But, your point about knowing what to ask for in an emergency is very valid, and more reason to have dedicated rescue threads.

Sorry for contributing to thread drift, I will remove myself voluntarily and hope for further position updates or sightings
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Old 01-01-2016, 19:57   #673
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monstads View Post
This might be another "too late" suggestion, but on the off-chance that Gil in fact DID leave the radio on, AND there is a solar panel somewhere on the boat so that the radio is still working, why not try to "crowd source" some DSC position requests? His VHF radio does have DSC, and according to the manual is configured to automatically respond. It's a very long shot, but here's my suggestion..

Anyone anywhere on the entire East Coast of the US with DSC, including Bermuda, Bahamas, on commercial ships, or out sailing, please try sending a position request to his MMSI number, 378112296 . Then, and this is important... blog about it, put it on Facebook, Tweet it. In short, spread the word. It's free, will give you a excuse for learning how to use your DSC capabilities, and it'll make you feel good. Call it the first Good Deed of 2016. If you are anywhere in the "projected drift path", especially if you are on the water, work for the USCG, or similar, maybe do it a few times over whatever time period makes sense, but even if you're not (like in Miami or inland somewhere), do it anyway, if for nothing else to learn how to do it.. In fact, why don't EVERYBODY try it, as a gesture of sympathy with Gil? Make 378112296 the most "pinged" MMSI number ever!

Just tried this from my slip here in Titusville. No Ack.


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Old 01-01-2016, 20:31   #674
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
Yes I have, because it didn't put him directly in touch with retrieving his boat.

As a side:

I don't think he ever said he was broke, only that didn't have any money on him. Maybe I'm wrong.

And putting him in touch with organizations or people who can help I think is just as morally supportive.

Summary CF puts people into a network that can result in connections to new people and organizations who can actively help.
After spending all he had on the boat he set out with three hundred dollars. He took ashore out of this $150 to pay for the cruising fee. When he saw that his boat had gone he was standing with $30 in his pocket. He has income from his programming business. But as it stands he was stranded with the clothes on his back, his little dingy, an inreach handheld and $30 in his pocket. In a desperate shape if I may say so. It was the generosity of people on CF and boaters in the area that came to his aid. Thank you.
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Old 01-01-2016, 20:35   #675
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

People, please be more civil, and more tolerant of each other. Thread drift is not nearly the problem here, as bickering is. We've had to delete quite a few posts, and if this continues, we will have to start issuing sanctions.

Anyone ever been in a police car or ambulance during an emergency? All kinds of different conversations go on -- it's only natural. Ignore those things which are not interesting to you and keep moving. What is not natural is when people use occasions like this to come up with something nasty to say under the guise of being "brutally honest" -- that has been discussed. All this sniping at each other is also not natural, and is not going to be tolerated.
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