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Old 30-12-2015, 23:49   #556
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Remember, you only have to get Gil (or a volunteer) to the boat. You don't need to tow the boat back.
I think that's a plan. If Dagny is sighted, all that's needed is someone local with a boat and a little time to sail out and catch up with her. Since we sail anyway for fun, this is basically zero cost and jolly good fun to boot, while doing a good deed at the same time. I would gladly do it if I were local to the appropriate area, and would hope someone would do it for me if I were in the same position. Even better a couple or few boats spread out a bit and coordinating the search by radio.

All this would be infinitely easier if Dagny were broadcasting AIS -- this observation comes too late to help Gil, but let it be a lesson to the rest of us.

Another technical means is a DSC position request -- or would have been in the first hour or so. I often use this to verify my boat is still where I left her, when I leave her somewhere at anchor with no one on board.

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Old 30-12-2015, 23:52   #557
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I think that's a plan. If Dagny is sighted, all that's needed is someone local with a boat and a little time to sail out and catch up with her. Since we sail anyway for fun, this is basically zero cost and jolly good fun to boot, while doing a good deed at the same time. I would gladly do it if I were local to the appropriate area, and would hope someone would do it for me if I were in the same position. Even better a couple or few boats spread out a bit and coordinating the search by radio.

All this would be infinitely easier if Dagny were broadcasting AIS -- this observation comes too late to help Gil, but let it be a lesson to the rest of us.

Another technical means is a DSC position request -- or would have been in the first hour or so. I often use this to verify my boat is still where I left her, when I leave her somewhere at anchor with no one on board.

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This is a new one on me. How do you do a DSC check? I would have thought you would need to be 'on' the boat to do that. (And of course have DSC)
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Old 31-12-2015, 00:01   #558
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
This is a new one on me. How do you do a DSC check? I would have thought you would need to be 'on' the boat to do that. (And of course have DSC)
If you have your DSC radio turned on, and the other guy knows your MMSI (identification number) it is possible for them to send a query message that your radio will reply to, transmitting your lat/lon.
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Old 31-12-2015, 00:08   #559
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by Paul Elliott View Post
If you have your DSC radio turned on, and the other guy knows your MMSI (identification number) it is possible for them to send a query message that your radio will reply to, transmitting your lat/lon.
Cool. I didn't know that. Good reason to keep my radio on wine I anchor and go ashore.
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Old 31-12-2015, 00:09   #560
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Elliott View Post
If you have your DSC radio turned on, and the other guy knows your MMSI (identification number) it is possible for them to send a query message that your radio will reply to, transmitting your lat/lon.
Exactly. You've never used this, Rustic? One of several great features of DSC. Particularly useful when sailing in company with other boats. It's called "position polling" IIRC - ping the target boat's MMSI, and if it's in range, it will automatically reply with its lat long.

P.S. I wrote "first hour" - in fact probably it would have taken more than a day for Dagny to drift out of range of DSC signals, which carry better than voice.

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Old 31-12-2015, 00:17   #561
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Cool. I didn't know that. Good reason to keep my radio on wine I anchor and go ashore.
If you have a DSC handheld with you, you can ping your boat whenever you like.

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Old 31-12-2015, 03:47   #562
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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If you have a DSC handheld with you, you can ping your boat whenever you like.

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That is pretty cool! A hand held DSC VHF and a fixed mount would essentially allow you to ping your boat and get a lat lon???? You would need separate MMSI for each radio no?

This is brilliant if it works. But it would be line of sight limited. Would this pinging work from an aircraft? That would mean that the range was increased (maybe) and visual sighting was not as important and would follow.

With a solar panel this could probably provide enough power for a light and the radio almost indefinitely.

What say you?

++++

On a separate note I think that it is another brilliant idea to organize a group including Gil to sail or power out and do a search using Chris' drift calcs. I am too far away to sail, but would financially support this effort. I suppose the search/rescue vessel would have to be probably have to come out of a port further to the north... and try to intercept the drift course and then do a search pattern.

Great project for the new year... Find the right boat, get crew over to it... fund the fuel and provisions etc. and go out and get that boat!
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Old 31-12-2015, 03:54   #563
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by Sandero View Post
That is pretty cool! A hand held DSC VHF and a fixed mount would essentially allow you to ping your boat and get a lat lon???? You would need separate MMSI for each radio no?

This is brilliant if it works. But it would be line of sight limited. Would this pinging work from an aircraft? That would mean that the range was increased (maybe) and visual sighting was not as important and would follow.

With a solar panel this could probably provide enough power for a light and the radio almost indefinitely.

What say you?
Of course it works. I have been using it for years.

If I'm on the boat and send out a shore party on the dinghy, I use it to ping the dinghy to see where they've got to. I use the handheld to ping the mother ship. I use it to ping friends when sailing in company -- to see how they're getting on and where they are.

DSC has several excellent functions, which it seems no one uses. Best of all is to use it for routine calling, which means you entirely skip the blather on Channel 16 trying to make contact. It was made for this, and I don't understand why it hasn't caught on.
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Old 31-12-2015, 04:31   #564
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Indeed, I was impatient to set sail, had been preparing for a year and a half, thinking about it and learning for years. Another month would not have made a big difference, but the weather was all right and I decided to go. I would have been better off with $1K in my pocket. I was going to continue working throughout the trip, but did not account for losing the boat in such a way. Next time I'll be a little more careful in that regard.

Gil.
Gil, i have not yet finished plowing through all the posts, but I really want to say something about this. If the place where you drop your hook is only thin sand over hard pack, so that the anchor cannot penetrate, unless you have massive amounts of chain out, you're going to drag if the wind or current get up, and with the massive amounts of chain, all it will take is a little more wind. There are some bottoms that anchors cannot penetrate. And they don't tell you on the chart. Usually you find out after dragging and sometimes if you are somewhere you can dive the anchor first before leaving the boat, or not, if it is thin sand over "cement". We have encountered such bottoms. They're hopeless.

Something to consider, is a small motor for the dinghy: with that, you can hip tie the dinghy with the o/b running, and use that propulsion to move the mother boat to the marina, etc. It is one of the excuses for having a motor for a dinghy.

Ann

PS. I am not intending this as a criticism of you, rather, as an explanation for the guys who think you should ALWAYS dive your anchor--no, you should not, when there's a strong current running, only at slack water, and not in alligator territory, either. The other is just a comment, for when you're back in business as a cruiser.
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Old 31-12-2015, 04:55   #565
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Of course it works. I have been using it for years.

If I'm on the boat and send out a shore party on the dinghy, I use it to ping the dinghy to see where they've got to. I use the handheld to ping the mother ship. I use it to ping friends when sailing in company -- to see how they're getting on and where they are.

DSC has several excellent functions, which it seems no one uses. Best of all is to use it for routine calling, which means you entirely skip the blather on Channel 16 trying to make contact. It was made for this, and I don't understand why it hasn't caught on.
===

I can't speak for others but on my radios the DSC functions seem awkward and unintuitive. Of course unintuitive means that you have to read the dreaded manual but it also means that that the function is going to be used a lot less often. The other issue for me is that I'd have to leave the chart plotter powered on all of the time to provide the installed VHF with a GPS position, and the chart plotter draws a fair amount of power. I gather that you have hand held VHF radios with built in GPS? If so what make and model is it?
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Old 31-12-2015, 05:00   #566
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

It seems as if the SSCA are interested in helping. Once the Dagny is sighted, then they can get a crew together to go out and do it. Better if Gil were there, but not essential.

You need two doublehanders, two couples to go out and get aboard via dinghy, and two people to sail her back and two to sail the mother ship back. It is -- like I wrote a few days ago, doable. I hope we can do it.

Best of success to all in this endeavor. Let's help Gil get his boat back.

PS. I believe this is our 25th yr. of SSCA membership.
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Old 31-12-2015, 05:00   #567
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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Actually, for all the small boat owners in Europe, unless you really want to cross an ocean, it may be better for you to just fly to the US, buy another small boat, insure it and take off.
Very true, and something I have considered.
Not just because of what you wrote, but also because boats are very expensive here compared to the US.

For me personally, my first goal is the Spanish and Portuguese coast. After that, I'll have some serious decisions to make ...

And sorry - I wasn't aware Gil left from Florida.
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Old 31-12-2015, 05:28   #568
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

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===

I can't speak for others but on my radios the DSC functions seem awkward and unintuitive. Of course unintuitive means that you have to read the dreaded manual but it also means that that the function is going to be used a lot less often. The other issue for me is that I'd have to leave the chart plotter powered on all of the time to provide the installed VHF with a GPS position, and the chart plotter draws a fair amount of power. I gather that you have hand held VHF radios with built in GPS? If so what make and model is it?
I got this in 2015 : Standard Horizon VHF HX870 and it's a brilliant hand held VHF w/ GPS and of course DSC.

I think it's time to upgrade my fixed mount Icom which requires a GPS input.

Lots of electronic "things" these days have enormous capabilities but have to put them in menu trees which may not be intuitive. The more features the more difficult it often is to find it... especially with the few buttons these devices have. I don't think touch screens are too good for this in a marine environment... and make little sense for a hand held device in my opinion. Try texting in a dink even as a passenger! Not happenin'

But once you learn the deal... it's easy peasy.
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Old 31-12-2015, 05:43   #569
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

Ok...another morning and another hope. As the boat drifts close to the US coast there has to be a chance that fisherman fishing the gulf stream will see it. And if they know about it, will do something to alert the USCG I would think.

Hoping this is a lucky day to end the year.

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Old 31-12-2015, 05:49   #570
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Re: Tragedy Strikes.

[QUOTE=gilgsn;1995202]I checked in this afternoon at West-End. Since I could not start my engine I anchored off the beach a mile South of the channel. Everything was seemingly fine, forty feet of chain and maybe fifteen of nylon rode, shallow water. Out of the customs office I checked on the boat, I could see the mast over the jetty. I had a late lunch, checked again, no problem. At six or six thirty after using my computer to get on the Internet it was time to head out to the boat on my dinghy. Dagny wasn't there! I found a guy on his boat with a radar. He could see nothing, not a blimp. Hard to spot a sailboat. Three guys on a motorboat offered to go look with me. We spent three hours looking around in the direction of the drift, nothing. I am stranded in West-End with nothing but the clothes on my back and my computer bag. They're letting me sleep in the gym tonight, no idea about tomorrow. Needless to say I am devastated, numb, incredulous.

Unbelievable! Our hearts go out to you. Are we talking about an act of piracy or some unexpected weather or tidal event? Not familiar w. your location.

Have u contacted the USCG and/or filed a police report?

G2L
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