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Old 03-02-2012, 08:14   #46
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Re: Too much scary stuff?

Our surveyor that we just used wrote that I should wire plugs to the through hull. Now my insurance company is telling me I have to. I'm not going to. I know where they are and so does my wife. There is a set of them with a hammer in each section of the boat. We did that in the navy at one time wiring wooden plugs to certain valves that only had one valve protection to the sea and they rotted out in a year. The first time I had to use one it crumbled just shoving it in the hole with my hand. BAD idea keeping them in contact with the hull that is below the water line. I'm also arguing with the insurance company over a CO2 extinguisher we have. It's a 30 pounder. Surveyor said to get rid of it in his report so the insurance company does too. Yeah right. It's staying. I have 7 of them and this one is in the head and the biggest. Middle of the boat where we should be able to get it from anywhere. I've fought a lot of at sea fires and nothing scares me more. Theres nowhere to evacuate to on a 29 footer. I still haven't figured out where the surveyor come up with this crap.
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Old 03-02-2012, 09:22   #47
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Re: Too much scary stuff?

SEA ANCHORS, LIFE RAFTS, EPIRBS, LIFE JACKETS, SAFTEY HARNESSES, WEATHER FAX, RADIOS, RADAR, GPS, FLARES, COAST GAURD, TOWING INSURANCE, HULL INSURANCE, INSURANCE, INSURANCE!!!!!!
ARE WE PARANOID OR WHAT???
BLOOD AND GUTS - DISASTER - DESTRUCTION!!
AAAHAAAAAAAHH!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 03-02-2012, 10:02   #48
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Re: Too much scary stuff?

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Originally Posted by rrranch View Post
Our surveyor that we just used wrote that I should wire plugs to the through hull. Now my insurance company is telling me I have to. I'm not going to. I know where they are and so does my wife. There is a set of them with a hammer in each section of the boat. We did that in the navy at one time wiring wooden plugs to certain valves that only had one valve protection to the sea and they rotted out in a year. The first time I had to use one it crumbled just shoving it in the hole with my hand. BAD idea keeping them in contact with the hull that is below the water line. I'm also arguing with the insurance company over a CO2 extinguisher we have. It's a 30 pounder. Surveyor said to get rid of it in his report so the insurance company does too. Yeah right. It's staying. I have 7 of them and this one is in the head and the biggest. Middle of the boat where we should be able to get it from anywhere. I've fought a lot of at sea fires and nothing scares me more. Theres nowhere to evacuate to on a 29 footer. I still haven't figured out where the surveyor come up with this crap.
Surveyors generally know their business inside and out, but they're not going to be dead-on accurate 100% of the time with every boat they inspect for a few hours. The survey results should be taken seriously but insurance companies treating them like gospel is a little much.

I had "fuel tank weeping" which I had to explain was just around the inspection ports and was nothing more complicated than resealing a plate. My insurance company was actually pretty good about the whole thing. We talked on the phone and once they knew that I knew what the story was and how to deal with it they were fine. They got spooked because they imagined the normal hands-off boat owner who would need to rip the boat apart to replace a tank leaking at the seams.
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Old 03-02-2012, 14:25   #49
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Re: Too much scary stuff?

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Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
. The survey results should be taken seriously but insurance companies treating them like gospel is a little much.

But they do! On my first boat on the survey was that the life raft was out of certification. So on my insurance they wanted me to get it certified. But they didn't require a life raft and were OK with me justing it off the boat!
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Old 03-02-2012, 14:50   #50
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Re: Too much scary stuff?

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Originally Posted by Geoduck View Post
SEA ANCHORS, LIFE RAFTS, EPIRBS, LIFE JACKETS, SAFTEY HARNESSES, WEATHER FAX, RADIOS, RADAR, GPS, FLARES, COAST GAURD, TOWING INSURANCE, HULL INSURANCE, INSURANCE, INSURANCE!!!!!!
ARE WE PARANOID OR WHAT???
BLOOD AND GUTS - DISASTER - DESTRUCTION!!
AAAHAAAAAAAHH!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL, time for a cocktail perhaps
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Old 03-02-2012, 14:53   #51
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Re: Too much scary stuff?

All the sailing I have done is two trips, one a multi day trip helping a guy move a sailboat with no sails from Craig, Ak to Ketchikan, Ak. I knew even less then than I know now, which is remarkable, because I know almost nothing about sailing. The other trip was a week long liveaboard, how to charter a bareboat in BVI kind of thing. I will say all the "scary stories" have nearly talked me out of buying a small hunter or something like that and singlehanding away. Nearly. Still sounds like fun though, as long as you don't die!
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Old 03-02-2012, 14:58   #52
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Re: Too much scary stuff?

My lady friend had a heart attack a few years ago,

She carries this bottle of pink fluid in her hand bag,

She said to me, If you think I am having a heart attack, Take this bottle of pink stuff and spray it under my tongue,

And she always makes sure I know where it is in her hand bag,

If she had not told me about it and I did not know where it was, she has a heart attack out there,

She is dead,

I cant cure a heart attack. and If I did not know about it, I could not help her,

There is no way that I would ever go to her hand bag for any thing,

I now know about it,

Its scary. But I have been pre warned. And I can do some thing about it,

I can help her if it ever happens,

Its better than not knowing and just sitting there watching her die,

This is what the scary stuff does, It gives you a procedure that you can put into action if and when some thing does happen,

Or you people would rather go forth in ignorance and just hope like hell nothing ever bad happens,

It does not mean that you go through life in fear of some thing bad happening,

It means that you can be prepared if some thing bad happens,

Some times it seconds that count to alleviate a very bad problem that can occur,

You dont have a day or two to Google the information, Thats if you are close to shore and actually do have an internet connection on your boat.

I have no connection with any one out there and I certainly dont have a heap of people standing on the Marina to come running to help if some bad happens.

And No, I dont go through life thinking some thing bad is going to happen.

But if and when it does happen, You can bet I am more than prepared for most things that can and would happen.

If your thru hulls do leak or fail completely. Would your bilge pumps actually cope with the amount of water coming into your boat,

I now know mine wont, So I am going to but bigger and better high volume bilge pumps on my Gemini, that will cope, If ever My thru hulls leak or if I get holed by a container floating at sea,

Is this scary, You bet it is, But I can do some thing about it, So then it is not scary any more, I will have pumps that can cope with the ingress of water,

Sorry, I dont sit at a Marina, looking at a computer, I sail my boat out there in the blue wide open ocean,

There is no help out there, Your on your own,

Be prepared for it, Knowledge is wonder full. And I dont find this scary stuff scary at all.

Its learning, Its what I teach people all the time, be prepared is what the scouts say,

Its the best advice ever,

Cheers,
Brian,
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Old 03-02-2012, 15:45   #53
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Re: Too much scary stuff?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
My lady friend had a heart attack a few years ago,

She carries this bottle of pink fluid in her hand bag,

She said to me, If you think I am having a heart attack, Take this bottle of pink stuff and spray it under my tongue,

And she always makes sure I know where it is in her hand bag,

If she had not told me about it and I did not know where it was, she has a heart attack out there,

She is dead,

I cant cure a heart attack. and If I did not know about it, I could not help her,

There is no way that I would ever go to her hand bag for any thing,

I now know about it,

Its scary. But I have been pre warned. And I can do some thing about it,

I can help her if it ever happens,

Its better than not knowing and just sitting there watching her die,

This is what the scary stuff does, It gives you a procedure that you can put into action if and when some thing does happen,

Or you people would rather go forth in ignorance and just hope like hell nothing ever bad happens,

It does not mean that you go through life in fear of some thing bad happening,

It means that you can be prepared if some thing bad happens,

Some times it seconds that count to alleviate a very bad problem that can occur,

You dont have a day or two to Google the information, Thats if you are close to shore and actually do have an internet connection on your boat.

I have no connection with any one out there and I certainly dont have a heap of people standing on the Marina to come running to help if some bad happens.

And No, I dont go through life thinking some thing bad is going to happen.

But if and when it does happen, You can bet I am more than prepared for most things that can and would happen.

If your thru hulls do leak or fail completely. Would your bilge pumps actually cope with the amount of water coming into your boat,

I now know mine wont, So I am going to but bigger and better high volume bilge pumps on my Gemini, that will cope, If ever My thru hulls leak or if I get holed by a container floating at sea,

Is this scary, You bet it is, But I can do some thing about it, So then it is not scary any more, I will have pumps that can cope with the ingress of water,

Sorry, I dont sit at a Marina, looking at a computer, I sail my boat out there in the blue wide open ocean,

There is no help out there, Your on your own,

Be prepared for it, Knowledge is wonder full. And I dont find this scary stuff scary at all.

Its learning, Its what I teach people all the time, be prepared is what the scouts say,

Its the best advice ever,

Cheers,
Brian,
There's a huge difference between being prepared and being intimidated.
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Old 03-02-2012, 16:11   #54
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Re: Too much scary stuff?

I find it strangely comforting when I'm confronting something like a 40-knot blow offshore to think back to the tale of the Smeetons pitchpoling in the Roaring 40s, losing their cabin top, Beryl suffering broken ribs and swimming back to the boat, then bailing with every tea cup like crazy while they tacked canvas over the broken deck, and then John Guzzwell fishing together half of the cabin furniture to make a new mast so they could continue on. I say to myself, in my puny storm, "Why am I worried, this is nothing!"
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Old 03-02-2012, 16:24   #55
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Re: Too much scary stuff?

Nay. I think the amt of space devoted to the scary stuff here is roughly proportional to the amt available from any other entertainment channel.

b.
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Old 03-02-2012, 16:28   #56
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Re: Too much scary stuff?

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I find it strangely comforting when I'm confronting something like a 40-knot blow offshore to think back to the tale of the Smeetons pitchpoling in the Roaring 40s, losing their cabin top, Beryl suffering broken ribs and swimming back to the boat, then bailing with every tea cup like crazy while they tacked canvas over the broken deck, and then John Guzzwell fishing together half of the cabin furniture to make a new mast so they could continue on. I say to myself, in my puny storm, "Why am I worried, this is nothing!"
Same. Reading the old books freaks me out a bit, being of this generation I just can't imagine having to worry about the structural integrity of the hull so much, to have it start leaking hundreds of gallons a day just because there's a lot of wind, to wake up with the floorboards floating around and then, half asleep, pumping, counting in order to note it in the log book.

I'm never quite sure why they counted the strokes of the pump. I mean, there's really nothing they could do -- either they kept pumping x times every watch or the boat would sink. Knowing exactly how fast it was sinking seems immaterial.

And the dubious sails, that needed constant mending on rough passages. Or all the drama about keeping batteries charged and a radio dry in order to get time signals to navigate...

That certainly gives me a lot of confidence in the way we go to sea now.
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Old 03-02-2012, 16:38   #57
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Re: Too much scary stuff?

I'm old enough to have navigated offshore with nothing but a sextant, and have sailed offshore in some relatively leaky old wooden boats, and I can't say that the anxiety level was any higher most of the time. The worst thing in the old days was fog or poor visibility, because you were never quite exactly sure where you were, but it is often possible to compensate for that by heaving to and waiting, or taking an extra wide swing around something. There's something very comforting about being down below in a heavy old wooden boat offshore--it's quiet, the ride is smooth, you feel like you're in a protective cocoon. Navigation anxiety has been replaced today with all of the hassle of maintaining and repairing more finicky gear that can't easily be fixed onboard. Amongst cruisers I talk to who are giving up the #1 reason by far is the drudgery and cost of repairs, not the fear factor. The old boats could usually be fixed by yourself, with tools and spares you carried onboard, while the new stuff often requires dismantling some complicated and expensive system and then getting something shipped (at great expense) to and from some distant locale, which then has to be installed carefully and with great difficulty.
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Old 03-02-2012, 16:47   #58
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Re: Too much scary stuff?

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On the other side we seem to rarely hear of the good things that are the majority!


Sure "stuff" happens and we need to learn from it to plan for it. But it doesn't happen as much as one would believe from stories etc or we would stop doing it!

- those stressing the learning angle like I never said that in the beginning

Guess this why more "safety" stuff is carried on boats over something like a spinnaker. Taking up valuable storage place for other "stuff"!

believing threads/posts I should expect way more pirate attacks than peaceful passages, and more robbing/killing attacks while on anchor than relaxing sundowners
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Old 03-02-2012, 17:15   #59
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Re: Too much scary stuff?

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LOL... not trying to P*** you off honest...
Its just as I was reading your post I had a mental flash of a guy checking the car before heading to the boat...
Blanket, food, water.... car may break down... its June but there may be a blizzard, GW n all... oh may be in an accident... hang on the ambulance coming for me may have an accident.... defibulator, saline drip, cold box with 2 pints blood, 1st aid kit with morphine...
All there... right... oh.. hang on I need gas... **** there could be a robbery while I'm there... vest/stab jacket, pistol, mace...
Bugga... wallets in my other jacket..

Sorry.... I'm a Life of Brian/Bob Marley fan....
It didnt strike me that you were trying to p*** me off, and wont have worried me if that had been the case.

Back to Dons original question i belive that there is value in looking at what has gone wrong and looking at the range of responces. I belive that if Don tell his partner dont worry then she will. Show others that in most cases it is a question of stuff up and possible lack of preparation/ maintainance is use full. However when we respond to such threads we need to remember that other feeling may need to be respected. How many of us have made the same mistakes and got away with it that time.

As Mr B righfuly said having one head up your clacker (or encouraging sailing partners to do so) is dumb. Fear reduces peoples ablity to respond to situations, and panic is most likely to occur when the "unbelivable" occours. These treads provide an oportunity to develop a culture of respect for the sea, because if you dont respect it you will pay the price sooner or later.

Any way you do have good taste in movies/music, it must be because it is the same as mine
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Old 03-02-2012, 17:27   #60
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Re: Too much scary stuff?

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Great idea.

My best passage ever: >>> Samoa to Vanuatu <<<

(cue the rainbows and dolphins)

Samoa was a bit dark for me. In Suvarov I'd found that one of my two crew was a drug addict, and had been secretly dipping into the medical kit. We didn't have anything really good, I think it was just tylenol with codeine, but I guess when someone like that runs out of booze after a month on a desert island they'll do anything to run away from themselves.

I didn't want to leave him on a deserted island, for other people to deal with, so we had an uncomfortable two week passage to Samoa together. You know, you're pretty sure the guy won't try to kill you, but you aren't certain. That kind of thing.

Once we arrived I kicked him off the boat. But let him stay an extra day to pack and etc. Then I found him doing lines of coke on the nav table-- certainly bad for the varnish. So I had to make him leave immediately. And of course there were a whole mess of stupid conversations and stress. Random cruisers would stop by with concern, because he'd told them we were about to sink, or something, as he was trying to get a ride on their boats next...

A fog lifted when he was finally gone.

There was a small explosion on board, well, really more of a small fireball. But only some varnish bubbled and the lexan window went opaque. Another story.

At the dinghy dock we found a new crew person. A very happy, bubbly, and in the zone twenty something. Just like us. She moved on board from another boat in the anchorage and began helping to get ready to go.

There's another story being skipped here, something about burning sage from a religious experience on an atoll. Inventing a new ritual to clear the air immediately before a passage, a ritual that has since become a staple of our lives, a thing to let go of the dirty and lubbery mindspace of the shore world and center ourselves back on the sea. The gist is that we'd got the happy back.

So we sailed off the anchor and headed West, in a glorious broad reach. ~20 knots, completely flat seas, and our beloved boat just slipping through the water. It was unbelievable. I'd wake up forgetting where I was, thinking that I must be in a marina. And then get more awake and realize that we were still gliding through the water in the middle of the Pacific. The easy conditions, and that each of us had already sailed very far, made it effortless. One of us would start doing something with the boat, and the others would just know, because they could feel it in the boat, too, and start helping without a word.

Our world shrunk to the boat and the three of us. We fell in love with each other, as fellow humans, travelers, and shimmery moon beans resonating on the astral plane. Naked in body and soul, we would just laugh together at the world and ourselves and found such joy in all the little moments. Our eyes so bright and open and happy for the others.

Our universe was so simple, and our minds so clear, that jokes and thoughts and sentences would circle through our minds as if we were one, all thinking the same things and knowing ourselves so well that we could start completing each others sentences and then playfully change them and crack each other up.

We cooked ginormous meals and gorged ourselves. My two fellow travelers found the other kind of love for each other, and humped voraciously. We laughed when they ran out of all the condoms on board, and they had to find something else to do.

Every few days we'd stop the boat, heave her to, and jump overboard. Swimming away from the boat and looking up at her bobbing in the calm seas, our own little wonderful and compact world within the enormity of the ocean and clouds. We were so completely happy, time could have ended for the outside world and we wouldn't have known.
GREAT POST msponer! Thank you.
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