To Furl on Not to Furl, that Is the Question . . .

[SaucySailoress]

This was a long-time bone of contention between my husband and I. For years he refused to put the roller furling back on. The previous owner had removed it so he could make 0.1knots extra when racing. Ha. Marc then refused to replace it for the very same 0.1 knots.

Once the roller furling went back on, life became so much easier.
And the position didn't suffer. The next major change we made was giving up racing (well, yacht racing anyway, on the cats we're on different boats, so I don't give a toss who he shouts at) - and that made life and marriage way easier!

[barnakiel]

Not much of an issue either way. I like to have my headsails furling but know a lot of cruisers who simply drop the thing on the deck, tie it down and that's it.

I would ALWAYS go for a furler but, if I had no cash for it, I would hank my jibs on and go cruising.

What I do hate is boats with only one forestay and a furling genoa on it. They are generally unsailable in light winds and a pain in the lower back if you were to get into an offshore storm.

b.

[Dame.n.Jess]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

You are in an interesting situation taking a boat without an engine cruising. You don't say how far you are thinking of heading.

We are planning on long term live aboard / island hopping. 2-5 years. Australia, New Zealand & South Pacific.

My wife cannot be around chemicals full stop it shuts her organs down, hence we pulled the inboard diesel. We have fitted an outboard but plan on only using it in sheltered water as its to hard to protect it out in the open sea, and hence we want the most amount of sail options as poss.

I have now removed my furler and placed it in the loving care of a metal recycler (best place for this one), for now I will sail hanked, but when we arrive back in New Zealand after the cyclone season I will look at a nice new shiny RR.

I don't really want to kill my boats performance by having my genoa foot a meter off the ground so I will look around for options that put the clue as low as possible and have the least amount of performance compromises.

Bit of a wish list but im sure it can be done.

[Boracay]

From what you are saying light air and pointing performance is critical to your cruising plans.

Is it possible that a heavy 1970's full keel boat will not do what you want?

I would have thought that a lightish modern boat with fin keel and spade rudder might be better, possibly with a more than a few solar cells, an electric motor and maybe some good sails.

If money is an issue would it be possible to fit some deep cycle batteries, as many solar cells as possible (they are getting cheaper) and a good quality electric outboard?

[SaucySailoress]

Originally Posted by Dame.n.Jess

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My wife cannot be around chemicals full stop it shuts her organs down...

This I find fascinating! What happens, and why? If one inboard engine used near shore causes problems, what happens when you need to go shopping and travel through towns full of cars? Or in marinas full of boats coming and going... Why is petrol better than diesel? What caused it? I am dreadfully nosy, I can't help it.

I have to say, you seem to have your head screwed on the right way round - offshore has to be the place to be in your situation.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by Boracay

I would have thought that a lightish modern boat with fin keel and spade rudder might be better, possibly with a more than a few solar cells, an electric motor and maybe some good sails.

?

I think if you took the donk out of my boat the bum would pop up and float like a ping pong ball.



Would go fast

I don't really want to kill my boats performance by having my genoa foot a meter off the ground

They are not that bad. You can still have a deck sweeper of a genoa.

having the outboard engine for emergency makes it more do-able.

[osirissail]

That's a difficult boat to find on the Google. A Northerner/Compass 28 seems to be a sturdy little "green water" boat with a full skeg hung tiller rudder. However, the descriptions I found had it equipped with an Atomic 4. So removing the engine was, IMHO, a good idea. The OP mentioned he has an outboard motor system fitted to the stern. Which to me seems a much better option. Hopefully it is a good reliable outboard like a Yamaha Enduro.
- - Getting all the fuel tanks out of the insides of the boat along with smelly, oily bilges definitely should improve the atmosphere (smell) inside such a small tight little boat.
- - I have seen sailboats up to 30 ft with an outboard on the transom for motoring into and out of harbors. The atmosphere in the boat is much better especially when under power.
- - I don't understand why the OP wants to be able to fly a genoa within one meter of the ocean. The wind gets better and cleaner the higher the sail flys. Of course this is limited by the center of effort getting too high and tilting the bow down into the water. Then there is the problem of be able to see what is ahead of you when the foresails are all the way down to water level. The waves and winds in that area of the Pacific can be boisterous and with a low handing sail he might be inviting following waves to get caught up in the low hanging gennie.

[cfarrar]

One advantage of pulling the inboard, assuming the weight and balance works out, is you won't have propeller drag. If this increases your boatspeed even a few tenths of a knot, you should also see more effective foils upwind and therefore less leeway and better angles.

[Ex-Calif]

Just thinking out loud here. (PS - glad you have an in-port maneuvering motor.)

My thoughts - YMMV

- On a 28 foot boat storing sails is a space problem
- When winds are light - I'm not furled
- When winds are heavy perfect sail shape is not needed - I have plenty of sail to make an inefficient sail do hull speed.
- When the weather is really up is where the furling sail becomes a problem. That little handkerchief hanging way up front is not what I'd want
- so add a hanked on storm sail on a removable inner forestay - you'll use it rarely.

So my leaning would be towards a 150 furling genny and a storm sail on a removable inner stay - maybe even double purpose the spin pole uphaul halyard.

I'd also seriously consider an a-sail spinnaker set up. A symmetrical spinnaker dual handed is just too much hassle for me.

[Ziggy]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Why can't you have both options with a spare forestay for hank on sails and say two sails for RR?

I agree with this suggestion. Furling is great, especially with a 135 genoa that you can reef down to about 100% of the foretriangle. For stronger winds, you'll want a small sail that keeps it's shape. Forget about ever changing roller furling sails at sea in a strong breeze with a shorthanded crew--it's very difficult and dangerous. With a removable forestay you can roll up the genny and hank on a small jib.

Another advantage is that setting a small sail further aft improves the balance of the boat. As you reef the main and reduce the jib, the center of effort moves forward and you may get lee helm (bad). Bringing the jib aft helps to restore the center of effort and balance the boat.

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by cfarrar

One advantage of pulling the inboard, assuming the weight and balance works out, is you won't have propeller drag. If this increases your boatspeed even a few tenths of a knot, you should also see more effective foils upwind and therefore less leeway and better angles.

If you are worried about weight and balance then simply install a potable water tank in the space vacated by the engine and now you have rebalanced the boat and probably, significantly increased your potable water supply on board.

[Ziggy]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

- When winds are heavy perfect sail shape is not needed - I have plenty of sail to make an inefficient sail do hull speed.

If you want to sail close hauled while keeping the boat on her feet in strong wind, sail shape is critical!

[swagman]

One more reason to consider self furling headsail is the space you'll save not having to store unused sails elsewhere............suspect on a 28 footer you've an issue with storage anyway, so why add to it with unwanted sails?
IMHO cruising around conventional routes means you should go for a max sized headsail as 95% of the winds you'll meet on the nose will be light anyway.
But if you go with a D cut and have a foam luff built in you'll find you can furl it to reduce sail area and retain the basic shape OK when things do get stronger.
Good luck
JOHN

[Dame.n.Jess]

Originally Posted by Saucy Sailoress

This I find fascinating! What happens, and why? If one inboard engine used near shore causes problems, what happens when you need to go shopping and travel through towns full of cars? Or in marinas full of boats coming and going... Why is petrol better than diesel? What caused it? I am dreadfully nosy, I can't help it.

I have to say, you seem to have your head screwed on the right way round - offshore has to be the place to be in your situation.

To answer your questions one by one,

1. She was at work and they painted with oil based paints and laid new carpet then for the next two weeks in was torental rain so they shut all doors and windows, this build up of chemicals wiped out her kidney, liver, spleen, bowel. She was taken to hospital where they overdosed her on iodine and the finished off her thyriod. She almost died and now has a 50% chance of serious cancer within the next 2-5 years.

2. She has strategys for regular smells (cars, smokers etc) we have gas masks everywhere and she has one that looks like a small surgical mask that has a decent carbon filter in it for going into town (we live in Sydney so we are used to pollution)

3. Petrol is not really better than diesel, however the old inboard sitting under the stairs coupled with the diesel tank inside added up to our boat smelly like a tractor, with the outboard everything is outside which is significantly better for her.

Cruising is her dream and as such I am doing everything I can to get her there. Our little Northerner is what we could afford that was a strong and safe boat for her, now im refitting her so we can head out.

[Dame.n.Jess]

Originally Posted by osirissail

That's a difficult boat to find on the Google. A Northerner/Compass 28 seems to be a sturdy little "green water" boat with a full skeg hung tiller rudder. However, the descriptions I found had it equipped with an Atomic 4. So removing the engine was, IMHO, a good idea. The OP mentioned he has an outboard motor system fitted to the stern. Which to me seems a much better option. Hopefully it is a good reliable outboard like a Yamaha Enduro.
- - Getting all the fuel tanks out of the insides of the boat along with smelly, oily bilges definitely should improve the atmosphere (smell) inside such a small tight little boat.
- - I have seen sailboats up to 30 ft with an outboard on the transom for motoring into and out of harbors. The atmosphere in the boat is much better especially when under power.

yes there is not a lot on the Northeners, they are VERY well built, they have a hand laid hull which in places is upto 15mm thick! they have a 3/4 keel and rudder is attached to that. Ours had a 65 Volvo Penta MD1 in it, 5hp single cyl. With the new Merc 8hp we can hit hull speed at just over half throttle so I assume the old Penta had done its dash.
Once we cleaned the bilges out and removed the hood lining the smell lifted considerably. Well worth doing if you dont like that tractor smell.
I thought that with an outboard on the back it would be noisy, but it is quieter with the merc at 3/4 throttle than with the volvo at 1/2 throttle. and a nicer deeper tone, you can easily talk without raising your voice over the Merc.

Regarding flying a low foot jib. Im a racer and I know its the wrong boat to fly along in. But where I plan to go light winds are fairly common, so when im flopping round in 5knots I want as much sail up as I can as I dont have the luxury of switching on the motor for the next 2 days. Plus I dont want to motor if I can help it. Another part of Jess's dream is self suffieceny and wind solar and sails all form part of that, petrol is only used when we abosolutely need to.