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Old 29-08-2013, 12:28   #106
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Re: Tipping the guys at the marina?

Side note: please don't take this as anything other than a good natured discussion Wrong. I appreciate your considered views, and the views of others. I'm discussing, not arguing. And if I come across too stridently, I beg your forgiveness. My answer below may explain why...

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I've worked in crappy, low benefit, low reward jobs. I've witnessed police abuse. Every day, I am voluntarily made aware of things I have no control over, simply by reading the news. By so doing, although I am not ignorant of these things, does that make me or anyone else responsible for them? Surely you are old enough, experienced enough to know there is little we can do to influence the perpetrators, let alone change things for those who suffer because of them.
But this is the point of this whole conversation. No one is saying you can save the world, or influence the perpetrators. You can't, I can't. But that's what those who refuse to tip when it is the norm are trying to do. They are trying to change the world b/c the feel they shouldn't have to tip someone who is being paid. (BTW, I don't put you in that category Wrong. You have clearly said you tip when appropriate). All these people are really doing is hurting the ones at the bottom of the ladder, and probably making it harder for similar cruisers who come in their wake (aka those "cheapskate Canadians," of which I will be branded as one).

No one is saying go save the world, but that doesn't mean you can't make your small part of it a little better for the real people in front of you. At very least, we can try and not make it worse.

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When is the last time you had any effect on changing the agreements between workers and employers? For that matter, how successful have been your own attempts to change things that matter to you in your own place of employment?
I have spent the better part of 20 years fighting for the rights of fellow workers. One of the things I do these days is to work as a union organizer for a group of workers who have been absolutely pummelled over the last 30 years. Look up Canadian Freelance Union if you're bored. So yes ... I've worked very hard to improve agreements between workers and employers. You and I are completely on the same page with regard to the value of unions, and the incredible damage that has been done to most Western countries due to the avarice of the few.

So again, I apologize if I've come off a bit strident. It touches on an issue that drives me deeply.
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Old 29-08-2013, 12:50   #107
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Re: Tipping the guys at the marina?

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Side note: please don't take this as anything other than a good natured discussion Wrong. I appreciate your considered views, and the views of others. I'm discussing, not arguing. And if I come across too stridently, I beg your forgiveness. My answer below may explain why...

So again, I apologize if I've come off a bit strident. It touches on an issue that drives me deeply.
No apologies necessary or expected. You've revealed a very good quality in Canadians though. Had a girlfriend in White Rock, B.C.. So, I'm familiar at least in a somewhat limited way of the differences between us and our friends to the north.

You're to be commended for your commitment to helping workers get a fair shake.

The only job I ever had that paid a fair wage and had benefits was union. Too bad they've suffered a loss of effectiveness and declining roles in America. We are worse off for it.

We've been talking about when tips are and are not expected or appropriate in this thread. But, there are people who do not even have the opportunity to earn tips.

You and I no doubt agree people should give freely to people in obvious need, wherever they are found. We'll know who they are when you see them, and the humanity in us will not let us ignore them without suffering a sense of deep felt guilt. They are usually unemployed or struggling to survive by finding no only something to eat, but items discarded by others in trash receptacles to sell. Old or young, we'll know them when we see them. We'll know them because they look unhealthy, frail and or confused. Many of them fill the ranks of homeless people everywhere.

Mike, thanks for your contribution.
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Old 29-08-2013, 13:26   #108
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Re: Tipping the guys at the marina?

It is a sad old world, isn't it?
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Old 29-08-2013, 13:41   #109
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Re: Tipping the guys at the marina?

I didn't realize what a can of worms I was opening by posting this. I might as well have asked, what's better? A Cat or monohull? LOL
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Old 29-08-2013, 13:47   #110
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Re: Tipping the guys at the marina?

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I didn't realize what a can of worms I was opening by posting this. I might as well have asked, what's better? A Cat or monohull? LOL
Depends.

Any subject on CF has the potential to explode into something we never expect. Keeps things interesting.
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Old 29-08-2013, 13:49   #111
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Re: Tipping the guys at the marina?

Hiya Matryx! Try a TRI-hull/Trimaran...now we're talking big bucks, but still much much cheaper than a Twin Otter!

As for the tipping thread, I'd be willing to tip Mr. Wrong, if he just forgets about this thread! (two pieces of eight, bud?)

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Old 29-08-2013, 13:51   #112
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Re: Tipping the guys at the marina?

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Try a TRI-hull/Trimaran...now we're talking big bucks, but still much much cheaper than a Twin Otter!

As for the tipping thread, I'd be willing to tip Mr. Wrong, if he just forgets about this thread! (two pieces of eight, bud?)

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I IZ WHAT I IZ AND I AINT GUNNA CHANGES, TIP OR NO TIP!
AND, coconut ice cream with husks?
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Old 29-08-2013, 13:54   #113
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Re: Tipping the guys at the marina?

...and with a husky coconut ice cream, if it brings peace to mankind on CF!

Mauritz
...back to our scheduled program...in progress...
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Old 29-08-2013, 16:02   #114
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I understand about the low wage rates for some in the states and if I am in a place that tips then of course I tip. I'm not a complete $&@$hole . I don't believe that businesses should have ever been allowed to use such low pay rates but that's just my opinion.


We have a minimum adult wage across the board of $13.75 and there is currently an argument going on about going to a living wage of $18/hr but we don't tip here.
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Old 29-08-2013, 16:18   #115
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Re: Tipping the guys at the marina?

interesting test.

Try telling an employee that works for tips that you are not going to tip them. Make sure you tell them with a straight face and make sure that you even go to the extent to make sure they know your not just an a hole making a joke, but that you are dead serious. Then pay close attn on the other staff that look at you and see if you get the same service.

If anything, tipping is unfair to the employee. They have no idea if they are going to get paid for great service or not.

We trade time for money and some of us leverage others time for money.

Regarding min wages. Product cost what product cost. an increase in min wages would only make you the end user pay more for the product. You would not get employees making more money and have the profit eaten by the owner who takes the risk. just not going to happen.
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Old 29-08-2013, 17:11   #116
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Re: Tipping the guys at the marina?

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And there's that moral outrage I was talking about...

If the reality is such that the wages these service people are paid is low based on the fact that they receive tips, then what? Don't tip b/c they are already being paid? But their pay is based on the cultural reality that they receive tips. So you are a one-person protest whose affects are to harm those who are already the most vulnerable. The owners aren't affected and don't care.

Most people in low-level service industries are paid below poverty rates, in part b/c they can make it up with tips. I fully agree with you that service people should be payed a living wage, but then that would make your diesel more expensive and your burgers pricer ... and then people would complain about that. Unless you're saying the owners and shareholders (many of whom are us) should take lower profits. Now there's the real answer.

There is a real problem with working poor all over the world. It is fundamentally unjust. But not tipping where a tip has become the norm only hurts the servers. Plus, it ignores local cultural realities.
Mike well put. I live in and come from a land where tipping is not the norm, where we recieve a living wage and don't have to expect a top up from the customer.
Having been a regular visitor to the States for many years in a previous job it was not until the fact was pointed out to me that many in the service industry in that country efectively are paid by the customer and not by the establishment, that my tipping reached the expected norm.
Just an explanation to those that live where tipping is the norm.
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Old 29-08-2013, 22:45   #117
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Yeah, Teknav, but it won't be nearly as cool as the twin otter!!!!
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Old 30-08-2013, 00:04   #118
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Guess you could ask if it is o.k. to get your own meal in order to avoid paying a tip, if that's what you prefer. Pretty stingy though, don't you think? Won't work very well in places that add a percent to your tab. You can also go to a different restaurant where no table service is provided. You can also try walking out without paying. Then you'll know the meal, whether already eaten or not isn't yours until paid for. Dare you.
That's sort of my point... I find the separation you made somewhat odd, as like the meal most things seem to fit the parameters of both options(including pumping out the meals from your holding tank once you're finished with them ).
I'm surprised you don't find it stingy that only the norms of others control who you feel deserves a tip.

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You can decide that for yourself. You can stay in bed or get up. Make sure you ask everywhere you go how much people are paid so you can make an objective evaluation though. Pretty foolish to assume everyone is low paid and needs tips. You may find them giving your tip back because they have been insulted.

If this is the case where you work, take your complaint to your employer. If you dare.
Equally as foolish as to assume that everyone is well paid, no? I agree that cultural norms have a role to play, but sometimes just because everyone else says it's ok that one person gets the crappy end of the stick doesn't mean it absolves you of making your own decisions.
I tip the pump out guy/girl, and if they're out of gloves I give them a few pairs. They get paid the same as a waitress here for base pay(or a bit less).



My employer is now my partner, and we work evenings and weekends while taking home the least(less than minimum wage counting all the hours that can't be billed for) to make sure our customers get the best service we can provide. On top of that I work an extra job to help cover costs. The majority of the money that comes in goes to make sure all our employees have a fair living wage and pay shop bills. Any other funny comments on that topic?


I don't often accept a tip, unless I really did go far beyond what I was billing for and the customer insists after I've declined. I certainly appreciate the thought behind the gesture and would never be rude to someone trying to give thanks. Whatever happened to graciously accepting people appreciation?

I might have a quiet chuckle in private later, if it's funny. As a fellow boater not as work, gave customer 50$ worth of cleaner wax etc and loaned a small powerwasher from my own belongings because he was stressing out getting ready to sell his boat, he tipped me a twoonie. I had to chuckle about it later, because the labels were still on the bottles!
I appreciate that he wanted to give thanks though.
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Old 30-08-2013, 04:54   #119
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Re: Tipping the guys at the marina?

I tip low wage worker when they are helpful. In NE when I pull up to the fuel dock if the dock person assists (and sometimes they don't) when I tie up I give them usually $5. And this is the only "thing" I typically tip for because I don't use other services. It doesn't break my bank, and it may help them out. I don't know if tipping is an expectation or not.... but I suppose since it comes at the end of the service it hardly matters. I also give the boat yard workers a tip before launch... if they done things like wax, sand or paint the boat... or helped me move something heavy for example. I usually give $50 when one guy has done a lot of work on the boat. And I often buy bring back them a sandwich when I go for lunch. I don't expect it, but they seem to be more attentive.
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Old 30-08-2013, 06:09   #120
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Re: Tipping the guys at the marina?

fron the news yesterday on the server strike at fast food places because of low wages:

how many have ever tipped the people at McDonald's?
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