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psneeld · 28-08-2013, 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrong

Funny that you squander your money like this with such abandon. Gee, do you always grease the wheels in order to get ahead of others in line ahead of you?

Now, if people whose boats are scheduled to launch at a particular time are late, that's one thing. But butting ahead of others is butting ahead, no matter how you feel about it.

I've always found people engaged in lifting or launching my boat respond well to just being friendly. No need to 'grease the wheels', bribe or whatever you wish to call it.

You may want to try it sometime.

Not in many places...money talks...he isn't squandering money if it gets him what he wants..that's what money is for, if not illegal.

If it screws things up..the marina will fix it or not...you may just have to wait if you don't tip...morally wrong maybe but a fact of life. try and change it without management or the law behind you.

Try and get even legal work done in a city without a "separate" payment to a crane operator or building inspectors, etc...etc...now in those cases it's not even legal but see what happens if you don't "pay up"....

I can tell where you are coming from...and hat's OK...but not reality in many places.

Again... tip where appropriate (service and custom) or not...and don't where it's not appropriate....it's not rocket science.....how hard is this folks?

Teknav · 28-08-2013, 12:30

Hiya Wrong! You obviously never lived in Egypt; I spent my teen years in Cairo and in Alexandria, several decades ago. No "baksheesh" meant nothing is going to get done. People there, live on an average of $2 USD per day. You can practically have anything you want/done with a little money greasing and lots of kind words.

Mauritz
Birth certificate, Death certificate, Divorce certificate, Unsure Status certificate...ONLY a Dullah!

Wrong · 28-08-2013, 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by psneeld

Not in many places...money talks...he isn't squandering money if it gets him what he wants..that's what money is for, if not illegal.

Try and get even legal work done in a city without a "separate" payment to a crane operator or building inspectors, etc...etc...now in those cases it's not even legal but see what happens if you don't "pay up"....

I can tell where you are coming from...and hat's OK...but not reality in many places.

Again... tip where appropriate (service and custom) or not...and don't where it's not appropriate....it's not rocket science.....how hard is this folks?

It is precisely because cruisers believe it is either 1.) necessary or 2.) beneficial for them to indiscriminately grease people's palms that others of us who won't/don't face problems 'out there'.

Following a cursory inspection in the Dominican Republic, one of the guys who'd come aboard said "Now, how about something extra for me"? My reply was that I'd already paid enough and nobody was going to get a cent more.

His response? He extended his hand to shake and thanked me saying, you're my friend.

Why do you suppose he did so? It is because he was possibly testing me, to see if I'd fold like other cruisers who'd too readily greased palms. Maybe he wants to see this kind of behaviour on the part of both official and cruiser disappear.

I also escaped having to pay bribes to not just one, but two naval employees in Bali simply by saying no. How many cruisers are prepared to do this? There is always a risk the person you are refusing can make your life difficult, but saying no until it appears this is the case is worth trying. Doing otherwise simply feeds the system.

I have said in most posts that I believe the primary source of the problem stems from the ill conceived notion by cruisers they have to pay something extra in order to receive fair value for their money. To receive the kinds of service people are already paid to deliver.

Teknav · 28-08-2013, 12:39

...--->confiscating Wrong's case of popcorn! You can have it back...IF the baksheesh is right!

Mauritz
Baksheesh or BUST!

psneeld · 28-08-2013, 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrong

It is precisely because cruisers believe it is either 1.) necessary or 2.) beneficial for them to indiscriminately grease people's palms that others of us who won't/don't face problems 'out there'.

Following a cursory inspection in the Dominican Republic, one of the guys who'd come aboard said "Now, how about something extra for me"? My reply was that I'd already paid enough and nobody was going to get a cent more.

His response? He extended his hand to shake and thanked me saying, you're my friend.

Why do you suppose he did so? It is because he was possibly testing me, to see if I'd fold like other cruisers who'd too readily greased palms. Maybe he wants to see this kind of behaviour on the part of both official and cruiser disappear.

I also escaped having to pay bribes to not just one, but two naval employees in Bali simply by saying no. How many cruisers are prepared to do this? There is always a risk the person you are refusing can make your life difficult, but saying no until it appears this is the case is worth trying. Doing otherwise simply feeds the system.

I have said in most posts that I believe the primary source of the problem stems from the ill conceived notion by cruisers they have to pay something extra in order to receive fair value for their money. To receive the kinds of service people are already paid to deliver.

You use the word "cruisers"...well at most marinas cruisers are barely one percent of the turnover. Certain marinas in travel areas ...sure...but the vast majority of boaters in developed nations aren't "cruisers" they are local boaters. They may take trips...but they generally return to the same marina or area. It's the nature of boating.

Believe what you want...but tipping probably didn't start with and won't end with boating...it's the nature of people and you are clearly in the minority in places that tipping is normal and correct in places that it's not. Most people don't tip to bribe..they tip because it's a "norm" or they want to.

Wrong · 28-08-2013, 12:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teknav

...--->confiscating Wrong's case of popcorn! You can have it back...IF the baksheesh is right!

Mauritz
Baksheesh or BUST!

Man, you are being a PITA! Read my other posts. I make clear that some cultures require tips, or 'baksheesh' be paid as a matter of course. So, if necessary pay it. Otherwise, don't.

Go ahead, eat the popcorn. There's a surprise in there for you. Ha, ha!

Wrong · 28-08-2013, 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by psneeld

You use the word "cruisers"...well at most marinas cruisers are barely one percent of the turnover. Certain marinas in travel areas ...sure...but the vast majority of boaters in developed nations aren't "cruisers" they are local boaters. They may take trips...but they generally return to the same marina or area. It's the nature of boating.

Believe what you want...but tipping probably didn't start with and won't end with boating...it's the nature of people and you are clearly in the minority in places that tipping is normal and correct in places that it's not. Most people don't tip to bribe..they tip because it's a "norm" or they want to.

Read my response to Teknav (except for the PITA part). My response for you is the same. Cruisers or boaters - call them what you prefer - the principle is the same.

Just because boaters are not the only people who engage in bribing others to get what they want doesn't justify what cruisers/boaters do that is unnecessary or inappropriate for the particular area to receive what they need.

psneeld · 28-08-2013, 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrong

Read my response to Teknav (except for the PITA part). My response for you is the same. Cruisers or boaters - call them what you prefer - the principle is the same.

Just because boaters are not the only people who engage in bribing others to get what they want doesn't justify what cruisers/boaters do that is unnecessary or inappropriate for the particular area to receive what they need.

Absolutely correct...but many of us do it because it's NICE...not necessary...the real meaning of tipping....

Wrong · 28-08-2013, 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by psneeld

Absolutely correct...but many of us do it because it's NICE...not necessary...the real meaning of tipping....

Always being NICE and paying isn't a necessity either. Just being nice is normally enough. You've been spending entirely too much time on CF where being NICE reigns supreme!

boatsail · 28-08-2013, 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Isn't the "right" answer culturally and/or locationally specific? Just like with restaurant servers or hotel staff, in some places it is the norm to tip, and is others it is insulting. It's hard to believe marina culture is so globally monolithic as to say no tips, never.

Well said!

When in Rome!

Seriously, try becoming a regular at a place without tipping where it is expected. You will make a name for yourself.

boatsail · 28-08-2013, 13:58

I worked at a bar downtown Baltimore when I first got out of the Marines. Worked there for about 4 years. Made really good money. High prices and high volume made for a good living. I was making about 65k a yr at the time Much of it was cash. One night I walked out with 998 dollars (at 22yrs old, that's a lot of money) Catered to football and baseball players. Had private parties all the time. Upscale place. The hotel associated with the bar had a contract with British Air. Bar closed at midnight. Legally, if I had a crowd, I could stay open until 2am. It was my call. Well, here is what I can tell you. British Air for the most part did not tip. I would take care of them all night long and get a dollar? Really. after this happened time and time again, we all knew that the chances of getting paid for the work you do was not there. I had a choice. There were many a night I would close at midnight as B.A. was the only table left. They would always ask me to stay open. A few times I did. I got burned every time. I made it my policy not to stay opened if I was not getting paid. That is the reason we go to work. So, I would say it comes down to the cutsom of the area. Where they were from they did not tip and that is ok. They also did not get to stay until 2am regardless.

When in Rome.

Teknav · 28-08-2013, 14:03

When in Rome...eat spaghetti and pizza while dressed in a Greek toga. Toga! Toga! Toga!

Mauritz
Going to behave now!

Wrong · 28-08-2013, 14:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teknav

When in Rome...eat spaghetti and pizza while dressed in a Greek toga. Toga! Toga! Toga!

Mauritz
Going to behave now!

boatsail · 28-08-2013, 14:12

Your job as an ambassador of where you hail is to represent where you come from in a positive light and one of the main ways you can do that is to respect the customs and of the places you visit.

Do you bring guns to countries who say you can't bring them in? (if you do, should you?)
Do you take your shoes off in countries where people take their shoes off when entering a home? If you do not, should you?
Do you tip in countries where tipping is custom? If not, should you?

Really, it is not even a question worth debate as you can apply so many other similar cultural and regulatory examples to come to a logical conclusion.