Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-06-2013, 14:29   #106
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Boat: Custom 30
Posts: 154
Images: 9
Re: Thunderstorm While Coastal Cruising. What do you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don L View Post
isn't a thunderstorm when it is time to get out the deck brush and soap?



and put in a reef just in case?
A good chance to practice heaving your boat to, and swab the deck!

It might be important to know just how much leeway your boat makes hove-to in a 50 kt breeze, when calculating sea room for real storms. A good thunderstorm (during the microburst part) will give your chartplotter a precise answer.

I am not ashamed to heave to, and am a big fan when weather arrives. But then I'll heave to to swim, fish, etc..

Reef 'er down and heave 'er to, and like Don L says, use the free water, collect some water, get today's shower, rinse the dishes, or just plain try to cool down a little. When it dies down, log your leeway, shake out your reef, and continue on. You will have lost little ground, and are so much less likely to have broken something, it is worth it. Plus you will learn how your boat behaves when hove-to, and can confidently predict and practice refinements which may serve you in a real 36 hour washing machine ride!



'
__________________

__________________
Custom30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2013, 14:39   #107
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Boston Area
Boat: Beneteau 423
Posts: 223
Re: Thunderstorm While Coastal Cruising. What do you do?

Sorry if it's already been mentioned but don't forget about the boom vang (aka kicker). In addition to letting the main out, if you happen to have a sail up, release the vang. I was a crew on a J144 that got hit be 60 knot squall. The main was down to the equivalent of a 3rd reef. The boat heeled way over and boom was dragging in the water. I let the vang off and boom came up out of the water. The main flogged pretty hard but the boat came back under relative control. We bore off and had a hell of a ride.
__________________

__________________
hlev00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2013, 14:40   #108
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Thunderstorm While Coastal Cruising. What do you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptForce View Post
You're absolutely right, but notice that when you read my post, that you quoted, and the OP that I was responding to; we were both talking about the distance between Port Everglades and Governors Cut. All correct observations on your part!

They can form over the Everglades, too. Saw a spectacular light show once on I-75 to the south of us all the way between Naples and Miami.
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2013, 14:55   #109
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Thunderstorm while coastal cruising. What do you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
Squalls can form relatively quickly but not without being evident and may generate winds of 60 knots locally but I have never, ever, heard of a squall itself moving at 60 mph in 60+ years of sailing and 20+ years sailing the west coast of Florida.





The four football players were in a 20' fishing boat that flooded and overturned because, in an effort to retrive their anchor, they attached the rode to their relatively low transome and powered away from the anchor at high speed, which, when the rode tightened up, pulled the transome under water. (They were not in a storm although they later had to endure one while attempting to remain with the over-turned hull of the boat.) Had they simply bouyed the anchor rode and made for shore they would have been okay.

Relying on your engine rather than sailing skills may work, but even absent rough seas which usually don't have time to build with squalls, a boat, and particularly a fat little duck like a Hunter 31, can be thrown about so much without a sail to stabilize her that sediment in one's fuel tank can easily obstruct one's filter(s) and stall one's engine. Then, absent sail, one is merely floatsome, at the will of the wind, and likely being thrown around so much that taking any action will become near impossible. The good news is that a squall will tend to move past one relatively quickly, before one can be driven ashore unless one is really close ashore to begin with which one should not be if sailing/powering on the reciprocal of the course of the squall, eh?

Yes, I am aware of why that boat tipped over.

I am well aware of my boat's nature, of the need to keep her stable, and of the need to keep the tank clean. "Fat little duck" is a good description!

My fuel tank has an access port (installed by me and a friend of mine) so it can be cleaned, but any boat can be tossed around enough to churn up dirt.

It was very apparent that this was the cause of my uneven engine performance because the engine was brand-spanking-new.

Sometimes Florida storms move, and sometimes they remain relatively stationary.

In fact local storms can drive coastal cruisers ashore IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG. I had a rudder severely damaged in rough, confused, shallow water and am more aware of that issue than a lot of people.

I have said all these things in the past about my boat and about those circumstances.

NEVER HAVE I ADVOCATED RELYING ON THE ENGINE INSTEAD OF MASTERING SAILING.

As I told someone else -- just because you turn the engine on doesn't mean you use it. However, a "fat little duck" of a boat can sometimes benefit from a little extea speed. It, too, can help keep her stabilized, if for instance, you need to get away from the shore.

I've seen very fast-moving storms, and I've seen nearly stationary ones. The stationary ones have a tendency to grow as well.

I have not *personally* seen a storm moving at 60 mph in Florida, but I've seen it numerous times in the midwest. I have no reason to think it couldn't happen here.

My boat does best with a little bit of mainsail and a little bit of headsail, and whether others here would choose it or not, I would have the engine ready to go -- unless the boat was rolling too much to keep the oil flowing smoothly.

But skillfully handled, so far this boat can be kept stable enough to have the engine as a backup. Can't say that about my previous boat, but it had an outboard anyway.

You will do what is right for you, and i will do what is right for me. If I get caught in a storm, "destination sailing" ends, and it's all about what is best for the boat. After the storm has passed, we can then think about our destination again. That's the reality of having a "fat little duck" of a boat. That's really a good description of her, with that high, fat stern and high freeboard.

BUT those things make her a good live-aboard boat, and that has to be thought about too. Different people need different things from their boats.
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2013, 14:56   #110
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Thunderstorm while coastal cruising. What do you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Custom30 View Post
While the engines installed in most sailboats are intended for marine use, there are some limitations.

Engines pump oil under pressure UP to the top of the various engine parts, then rely on gravity to pull the oil back DOWN to the pan, to repeat the cycle. This only happens properly when up is up and down is down.

Extended periods of sailing with the motor running (in gear or not) with enough wind to heel the boat, means extended periods of improper oiling. An engine heeled for long periods will mean un-oiled pockets, as well as pools formed. Uneven cooling (heating) is the result, and damage is not far off.

A 30 minute T'storm is an eternity for your engine parts that are without oil. I grew up in S.Fl., and those babies can be brutal, but they are a fact of life.


Even when they form quickly and locally, they offer lots of warning to buy sea room, reef down, batten down, and enjoy the ride! If you are sailing in Florida in the Summer you will have to be comfortable that your boat can handle them.



'

Thanks. I do know about the oil thing, but you'd be amazed how hard someone tried to convince me once that it wasn't an issue when I insisted on turning MY engine off.

He wanted to use the engine ... and it wasn't his engine he could be damaging. Other people sometimes really lead with their egos on other people's boats.
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2013, 15:03   #111
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Thunderstorm While Coastal Cruising. What do you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
SailfastTri,

Often, one finds oneself out there long before any warnings are made available. What I believe the OP was interested in was how to better handle his vessel when that happens, and has received some good advice.

Furthermore, since the squall season is long, most people, I would think, who wanted to deliver their boat from anchorage or port to port would simply leave as early as they could, anyway, and IMO, that does not make them irresponsible idiots, more people who are willing to accept a risk.

If you get the 70 knot winds, with gusts to 100, however, unplanned, the cautions to be aware of subtle changes in what you see, and not-so-subtle ones as well, have great validity for trying to deal well with the developing situation.

Dockhead, HyLyte, Rakuflames, Zeehag, and even I have supported early preparedness, and that seems to be a consistent part of this thread, so where are you getting this idea of folks intentionally going out when its an extreme warning? In any event, "screaming" in bold type at the folks who are not seated near their computers must be a waste of time?

Ann

Moreover, they don't issue warnings for the kind of storm he's talking about. Obviously in the NE some kind of front is coming through. When the football players' boat flipped, there was DAYS' warning about that front coming through. Interestingly, one of the wives said that they were all "experienced."

The thing abouat their "experience" is that they apparently did the same stupid thing over and over. For instance, that was a favorite fishing spot for them -- but they did not have an offshore boat. Their "experience" had apparently not included watching the weather reports.

Sometimes, someone's "experience" consists of doing stupid things over and over but getting lucky. Their luck ran out that day, and three out of four of them died. I know a guy who has been sailing for at least fifty years but who is the most chuckle-headed sailor I have ever met. Beginners have a good excuse -- they haven't had a chance to learn lots of things yet. There's no excuse for him. He wanted me to use a slipknot on my spring lines "so they would be easily adjustable." Yeah -- all by themselves!
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2013, 15:18   #112
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Thunderstorm While Coastal Cruising. What do you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
!
Oi! Rakuflames... could you please just quote the relevant part of the post you are replying to?



Thanks muchly


Mark (I dunno why I am single!)
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2013, 15:19   #113
Moderator
 
Hudson Force's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Lived aboard & cruised for 45 years,- now on a chair in my walk-in closet.
Boat: Morgan OI 413 1973 - Aythya
Posts: 7,894
Images: 1
Re: Thunderstorm While Coastal Cruising. What do you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
They can form over the Everglades, too. Saw a spectacular light show once on I-75 to the south of us all the way between Naples and Miami.
Sure, you are right, but why does this keep happening? They occur all around the Gulf of Mexico, in Asia, in Africa, in every hemisphere, in all coastal areas where the land warms faster than the water,- the Mediterranean, the Great Lakes, the Chesapeake. I'm just addressing the "east" and "west" as related to the position in the original question. I don't think that I or anyone else has suggested that there is a unique phenomenon occuring off the shore between Ft. Lauderdale and Miami, but if the question should come up,- they can occur on other worlds in other solar systems given the right conditions.
__________________
Take care and joy, Aythya crew
Hudson Force is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2013, 15:21   #114
Registered User
 
mikepmtl's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 393
Posts: 171
Re: Thunderstorm While Coastal Cruising. What do you do?

I've been caught in those storms quite a bit. I personally tend to come in a bit towards shore (3-4 miles off shore), turn on my engine and keep the boat moving at 3 knots or so. reef the main to almost nothing (furled main). Completely reef in the genoa. I do this way before the storm hits me. I get my foulies on and make sure everything is stowed.

According to my wind indicator I've been in gusts up to 80-90 knots. No idea if that was accurate or not, but it sure felt strong.

I might change my course to make the boat more comfortable. Even with only 4-5 of main sail my boat would heel significantly from wind.

I also have a radar so I can usually see where it starts and ends. If I can I try to adjust course to get out of it as soon as possible.

I have also been caught in these storms in the ICW. That is not fun at all. Basically the main issue is you cannot see more then 10 feet in front of you at times. And other boats are still travelling, some at decent speeds in the ICW. So you hopefully try to find some place just off the ICW with a bit of water and lots of swing room and I drop about 200' of chain in 10' of water.

And worse than that is getting hit by one of those in a tight anchorage. There were so many boats breaking loose heading towards mine it wasn't funny. I even had people screaming at me that I was dragging (60lbs anchor and 200' of chain) towards them when in reality it was them dragging and colliding into me.

I have some video and pics of these wonderful storms. Well no video of the ones offshore. Too busy keeping the boat on course to shoot video. But at anchor.
__________________
Cruising southern Florida and the Bahamas
S/V Bonaroo
2005 Beneteau Oceanis 393 Clipper
mikepmtl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2013, 15:22   #115
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Thunderstorm While Coastal Cruising. What do you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Oi! Rakuflames... could you please just quote the relevant part of the post you are replying to?



Thanks muchly


Mark (I dunno why I am single!)

You didn't quote anything I said, so how I would know? Sorry but ... let's not have a "back and forth," OK? It never works.
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2013, 15:26   #116
Registered User
 
mikepmtl's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 393
Posts: 171
Re: Thunderstorm While Coastal Cruising. What do you do?

Not as impressive on video as in real life, but I was anchored just off Titusville on the ICW and saw this.



The lightning went on for 4-5 hours at least. It was an amazing show.

(Sorry for the genset noise).
__________________
Cruising southern Florida and the Bahamas
S/V Bonaroo
2005 Beneteau Oceanis 393 Clipper
mikepmtl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2013, 15:27   #117
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Thunderstorm While Coastal Cruising. What do you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptForce View Post
Sure, you are right, but why does this keep happening? They occur all around the Gulf of Mexico, in Asia, in Africa, in every hemisphere, in all coastal areas where the land warms faster than the water,- the Mediterranean, the Great Lakes, the Chesapeake. I'm just addressing the "east" and "west" as related to the position in the original question. I don't think that I or anyone else has suggested that there is a unique phenomenon occuring off the shore between Ft. Lauderdale and Miami, but if the question should come up,- they can occur on other worlds in other solar systems given the right conditions.

I'm not sure what you mean -- why do storms come up unpredictably? That's the limits of our weather forecasting. Large scale events can be forecast. There's a new TD in the western Caribbean. No surprise there; that's very common at this time of year. They can predict what direction it's going to move in (NW). They *can't* predict whether it will turn into a TS or not. It's probably going to move over the Yucatan peninsula, and then into the Bay of Campeche, where it mght or might not strengthen enough to be a TS. But the rain will be the real concern for those countries affected.

Katrina was a V out in the gulf but down to a 3 by the time she came ashore, but still caused devastation. Sandy wasn't even "tropical," which, it turns out is a technical designation of no use to those in her path, who probably thought "Oh she's 'not even a tropical storm' any more" and had no idea what they were in for.

It's not that the shore between Miami and Fort Lauderdale is so unique. That's an area the OP sails in frequently.
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2013, 15:29   #118
Moderator
 
Hudson Force's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Lived aboard & cruised for 45 years,- now on a chair in my walk-in closet.
Boat: Morgan OI 413 1973 - Aythya
Posts: 7,894
Images: 1
Re: Thunderstorm While Coastal Cruising. What do you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepmtl View Post
......................... . I even had people screaming at me that I was dragging..................... towards them when in reality it was them dragging................................
You would think they they would know that the boat that does not remain pointed into the wind is the dragging vessel, but that doesn't seem to be noticed by all. ...or better yet, you would expect the upwind boat to be the dragging vessel,- who drags into the wind? Afterall, we are speaking of big winds and not a turn of the tidal current!
__________________
Take care and joy, Aythya crew
Hudson Force is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2013, 15:30   #119
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Thunderstorm While Coastal Cruising. What do you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepmtl View Post
I've been caught in those storms quite a bit. I personally tend to come in a bit towards shore (3-4 miles off shore), turn on my engine and keep the boat moving at 3 knots or so. reef the main to almost nothing (furled main). Completely reef in the genoa. I do this way before the storm hits me. I get my foulies on and make sure everything is stowed.

According to my wind indicator I've been in gusts up to 80-90 knots. No idea if that was accurate or not, but it sure felt strong.

I might change my course to make the boat more comfortable. Even with only 4-5 of main sail my boat would heel significantly from wind.

I also have a radar so I can usually see where it starts and ends. If I can I try to adjust course to get out of it as soon as possible.

I have also been caught in these storms in the ICW. That is not fun at all. Basically the main issue is you cannot see more then 10 feet in front of you at times. And other boats are still travelling, some at decent speeds in the ICW. So you hopefully try to find some place just off the ICW with a bit of water and lots of swing room and I drop about 200' of chain in 10' of water.

And worse than that is getting hit by one of those in a tight anchorage. There were so many boats breaking loose heading towards mine it wasn't funny. I even had people screaming at me that I was dragging (60lbs anchor and 200' of chain) towards them when in reality it was them dragging and colliding into me.

I have some video and pics of these wonderful storms. Well no video of the ones offshore. Too busy keeping the boat on course to shoot video. But at anchor.

I would do all you said except that I don't have radar. However, there are other ways to get weather information. A phone is good enough close to shore.

In the ICW -- yuck. Hopefully you'd be able to pull in some place. With my exposed rudder I would not continue in the ICW. In fact, I know someone who has the same model boat I have (and who is truly an expert sailor) who lost his rudder in Sarasota Bay in the ICW. I was in the channel when I lost mine, too. Try explaining those channel markers to confused waves ...
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-06-2013, 15:36   #120
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Thunderstorm While Coastal Cruising. What do you do?

User ignore.
__________________

__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cruising

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coastal cruising in India Connemara Indian Ocean & Red Sea 14 07-07-2013 12:29
The Real Lifonomics of Sailing / Cruising drew.ward Boat Ownership & Making a Living 35 23-08-2012 23:08
Free: crew needed now for coastal cruising south from augustine Hutaw Classifieds Archive 0 13-12-2011 12:07
For Sale: VHFs, Offshore Medical Kit, Cruising Guides, Chart Cards, etc. svdreamkeeper Classifieds Archive 0 04-12-2011 18:10
For Sale: Cruising Guides and Sailing Resource Books svdreamkeeper Classifieds Archive 3 23-11-2011 12:24



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:06.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.