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Old 15-12-2015, 05:55   #121
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Re: There is no Planet B

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Silencing people who disagree is the first sign of Cult Behavior, notice how they even use the language of religion "denier".
There is no man made global warming according to the scientific data...to say otherwise is faith and belief, not science.
I happen to live in a town where NOAAs biggest office is outside of Washington DC and both of my next door neighbors, with advanced degrees work there. Alone they will both say that the whole thing is junk science, but they were both in my yard one day and I brought it up and they both ran. Later one told me it would be their ass at NOAA if their.management heard that either had said that and neither one trusted the other because it was that big a deal there.
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Old 15-12-2015, 06:10   #122
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pirate Re: There is no Planet B

Well.. for those who are not prepared to spend mega $$'s to avoid a bit of work there's the old tried and tested ways.. use the wind, tides and a scull for entering ports and marina's.. and for those windless days at sea.. scrimshaw and splicing are great pasttimes..
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Old 15-12-2015, 06:14   #123
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Re: There is no Planet B

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I happen to live in a town where NOAAs biggest office is outside of Washington DC and both of my next door neighbors, with advanced degrees work there. Alone they will both say that the whole thing is junk science, but they were both in my yard one day and I brought it up and they both ran. Later one told me it would be their ass at NOAA if their.management heard that either had said that and neither one trusted the other because it was that big a deal there.
Sounds legit :thumbsup:

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Old 15-12-2015, 09:26   #124
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Re: There is no Planet B

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I happen to live in a town where NOAAs biggest office is outside of Washington DC and both of my next door neighbors, with advanced degrees work there. Alone they will both say that the whole thing is junk science, but they were both in my yard one day and I brought it up and they both ran. Later one told me it would be their ass at NOAA if their.management heard that either had said that and neither one trusted the other because it was that big a deal there.
Seems to me that statement leads credence to rich and some others earlier statements. You disagree publicly with the " establishment views" on the subject and you will loose your job and credibility . ( conform or sack)
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Old 15-12-2015, 09:50   #125
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Re: There is no Planet B

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Originally Posted by senormechanico View Post
From the Bill Bonner Newsletter:
and I thought I was the only one here on CF that read Bill Bonner's newsletters...that guy has helped make and save me more money than the "who to make money while cruising thread"...

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Stunning amount of ignorance and misinformation here about the cause and effects of global warming. To the point that some even deny that thermometers even really work.
I agree...how some could fall for the Scam is pretty amazing isn't it.
Maybe you haven't spent years in a Lab, but not all thermometers are created equal....
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Old 15-12-2015, 10:09   #126
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Re: There is no Planet B

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OK given that most folks have moved on from this thread I would still like to pose this: Why is it the world could come together on the science and solution for the ozone depletion, but not climate change? Before you answer remember scientists were responsible for the data that led to the conclusions...
From NASA:

"On Sept. 16, 1987, representatives from nations around the world drafted a landmark treaty known as the Montreal Protocol. This step marked the beginning of the international agreement to phase out substances that deplete Earth's protective ozone layer. Now, 25 years later, NASA satellites continue to provide clear snapshots of a generally stabilized Antarctic ozone hole as it cycles toward its annual maximum depth by late September or early October.

The protocol is hailed as an international policy success story. That success, however, rests on the ingenuity of numerous scientists involved with the initial discovery and analysis of the then-mysterious atmospheric phenomenon."


What we were told in the 70s and 80s was the hole in the Ozone Layer was increasing and we would be going into an "Ice Age" from c02 escaping through this hole and we losing too much of the Green House gasses. Soooo, I guess we did too good of a job fixing the fixing the Ozone Layer and now have too much co2???? Really, what kind of BS Science is this?


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Old 15-12-2015, 10:13   #127
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Re: There is no Planet B

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What we were told in the 70s and 80s was the hole in the Ozone Layer was increasing and we would be going into an "Ice Age" from c02 escaping through this hole and we losing too much of the Green House gasses. Soooo, I guess we did too good of a job fixing the fixing the Ozone Layer and now have too much co2???? Really, what kind of BS Science is this?


Mike
You were misinformed.
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Old 15-12-2015, 10:16   #128
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Re: There is no Planet B

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Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
OK given that most folks have moved on from this thread I would still like to pose this: Why is it the world could come together on the science and solution for the ozone depletion, but not climate change? Before you answer remember scientists were responsible for the data that led to the conclusions...
From NASA:

"On Sept. 16, 1987, representatives from nations around the world drafted a landmark treaty known as the Montreal Protocol. This step marked the beginning of the international agreement to phase out substances that deplete Earth's protective ozone layer. Now, 25 years later, NASA satellites continue to provide clear snapshots of a generally stabilized Antarctic ozone hole as it cycles toward its annual maximum depth by late September or early October.

The protocol is hailed as an international policy success story. That success, however, rests on the ingenuity of numerous scientists involved with the initial discovery and analysis of the then-mysterious atmospheric phenomenon."
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Originally Posted by Juho View Post
I'll try to answer also to the original question.



I think we will still have many diesel and gas motors but we should not use fossil fuel in them. Biodiesel, methanol, ethanol and others are ok. Fuel is probably more expensive than now, but that is not a big deal to sailing cruisers. You just avoid motoring a bit more than now. Installing some other kind of engines is possible too.

Sail: Yes
Solar: Yes
Electric: Yes
Fuel Cell: Yes
Wind Turbine: Yes

In addition one could use hydrogen, methane, even compressed air, or whatever is best.

We have used the fossil resources few hundred years now, continuously increasing our consumption. Energy has been extremely cheap. I don't see any reason why humans could not live happily ever after even if there was not such an abundant source of cheap energy available. We have just used to that cheap source of energy and we use it very wastefully. Naturally giving up our current level of consumption is not painless, but we do have all the technology needed to fulfil all our basic needs and something extra too.

Cruisers know very well that during passages you can be quite independent of fossil fuels if you want to. That is, without sacrificing your living standards too much. Cruisers do that voluntarily all the time. For them cutting down use of fossil fuels should not be a major problem.
I'm confused about the "We have used the fossil resources few hundred years now" part. 100 years ago we were still traveling by horse and buggy/wagon or Steam engine train. The automobile was in it's infancy. What were we using Fossil Fuels for during the other "few hundred years"???


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Old 15-12-2015, 10:21   #129
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Re: There is no Planet B

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You were misinformed.
That is the whole point!!!!! Strong possibility that we are being misinformed now and in 30 years from now looking back going, well, I guess I was lied to again
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Old 15-12-2015, 10:31   #130
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Re: There is no Planet B

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Originally Posted by Udacha View Post
I'm confused about the "We have used the fossil resources few hundred years now" part. 100 years ago we were still traveling by horse and buggy/wagon or Steam engine train. The automobile was in it's infancy. What were we using Fossil Fuels for during the other "few hundred years"???


Mike
Well coal is a fossil fuel and it has been used since before recorded history. EArly humans would use tar that had seeped to the surface to fuel fires and torches to light up the night since the early stone age. So I would say stating the usage of fossil fuel for a few hundred years to be a rather conservative estimate. IMO
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Old 15-12-2015, 10:43   #131
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Re: There is no Planet B

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That is the whole point!!!!! Strong possibility that we are being misinformed now and in 30 years from now looking back going, well, I guess I was lied to again
The ozone layer has always been about protection from UVB. The use of CFCs was opening up a hole in the ozone layer, resulting in a concern about skin cancer.

It was never about GHGs escaping through the hole.

The only ones lying to you now are the denialists who are using the same tactics that they used when they lied to you about tobacco.
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Old 15-12-2015, 10:48   #132
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Re: There is no Planet B

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Well coal is a fossil fuel and it has been used since before recorded history. EArly humans would use tar that had seeped to the surface to fuel fires and torches to light up the night since the early stone age. So I would say stating the usage of fossil fuel for a few hundred years to be a rather conservative estimate. IMO
Fossil fuel combustion and the associated emission of CO2 grew exponentially as a result of the industrial revolution.

The total anthropogenic carbon emissions from 1751 to 2011 is:

373,729,000,000 metric tonnes or 1,370,464,000,000 metric tonnes of CO2.

1751 - 3 million metric tons of anthropogenic carbon emissions

2011 - 9449 million metric tons of anthropogenic carbon emissions

To convert to units of carbon dioxide (CO2), simply multiply these estimates by 3.667.

cdiac.ornl.gov/ftp/ndp030/global.1751_2011.ems
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Old 15-12-2015, 10:56   #133
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Re: There is no Planet B

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Originally Posted by Udacha View Post
What we were told in the 70s and 80s was the hole in the Ozone Layer was increasing and we would be going into an "Ice Age" from c02 escaping through this hole and we losing too much of the Green House gasses. Soooo, I guess we did too good of a job fixing the fixing the Ozone Layer and now have too much co2???? Really, what kind of BS Science is this?


Mike
There was never a scientific claim that the ozone hole was going to allow the escape of CO2 or any other gas. The threat of exposure to harmful solar radiation was well known to be the threat. I suppose it is pointless to keep trying to put out fires of anti-science sentiments, especially those claiming that science is like a religion. But I'll tell a little story for anyone who is still reading about my freshman year in college at UC Santa Barbara. I was an aspiring bio major in a dorm with quite a few physics majors. I happened to be concerned at the time about nuclear power, and joined those in opposition to it. We had quite a few heated debates at the time with the physics majors who insulted us, decried our naivete and insisted we had to have nuclear power or we'd fry ourselves with global warming. That was 1975. Now where in the world did those kids get that crazy idea?
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Old 15-12-2015, 11:18   #134
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Re: There is no Planet B

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Fossil fuel combustion and the associated emission of CO2 grew exponentially as a result of the industrial revolution.

The total anthropogenic carbon emissions from 1751 to 2011 is:

373,729,000,000 metric tonnes or 1,370,464,000,000 metric tonnes of CO2.

1751 - 3 million metric tons of anthropogenic carbon emissions

2011 - 9449 million metric tons of anthropogenic carbon emissions

To convert to units of carbon dioxide (CO2), simply multiply these estimates by 3.667.

cdiac.ornl.gov/ftp/ndp030/global.1751_2011.ems
Jack I don't disagree with you my point was that humans have been using fossil fuels for a lot longer than some people would want people to believe. Heck Henry ford knew we needed to invest in alternative fuels from the get go the model A was designed to run primarily on ethanol. Not on gasoline. However gas was cheaper to produce so people used it
Heck the " diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil not the at the time waste product later named diesel as a marketing scheme.
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Old 15-12-2015, 11:24   #135
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Re: There is no Planet B

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That is the whole point!!!!! Strong possibility that we are being misinformed now and in 30 years from now looking back going, well, I guess I was lied to again
Not lied to, you were reading the papers.

More science pointed towards warming.

What were climate scientists predicting in the 1970s?
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