There is no Planet B

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by senormechanico

Just think of all the evil CO2 being produced by all the electricity being wasted from all the computers being used on this useless thread !


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My tablet is charged off my house bank charged by solar panels so I guess I'm an eco freek again

[44'cruisingcat]

No planet B, but there's always planet Claire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT1L5swMMVI

[chrtucke]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I am always amazed how many folks are ready to pipe up against efforts at reducing CO2 emissions here. If anyone should be aware of climate change it should be sailors, we see it everywhere. And to deny our own CO2 emissions are at fault is to plainly ignore data and statistics for the last 100 years. It does matter. It matters to my kids. Yes, it may be too little, too late, but for those of us who would like to talk to our children about their future plans, we'd really appreciate it if the naysayers and deniers would give it a rest. If we are right, and we act in time, you get a planet to live on too, if we are wrong... well we're not wrong, but if we were, the terrible thing that happens is that all nations get a cleaner, more energy independent and self-sustained economy.

Oh PLEASE!! Nobody is denying that the "climate is changing" but factual data - NOT interpreted, man-made computer models filled with guesswork and conjecture - has proven this to be completely false so whose "denying science". Find another cause to give you a reason to live and move on...PLEASE do us all that favor!!

PS: BTW - those folks doing the "interpreting" of data to support this ponzi scheme also happen to be the folks benefiting from the hysteria and all the tax dollars being poured into it. Wake up!!

[bongo]

It is obvious that some of the most vocal people in this forum topic are unaware of the actual science that has been done concerning this issue. It is known that the excess CO2 comes from burning, (fossil fuels and forests), because the ratio of carbon isotopes is altered by burning, and this can be compared to the historical record, (taken from ice core samples in Antarctica, and elsewhere). I have been part of this research effort, in a funny and contradictory sort of way: I have been a power plant engineer @ McMurdo Station, Antarctica, pumping CO2 into the atmosphere, so the scientists can have light and heat to do their research. In addition, humans put about 35 billion tons of CO2 into the atmosphere annually, 100 times more than all of Earth's volcanoes. (At present).
And, if you know anything about control systems, you know that negative feedback is a good thing. We have had that with Earth's climate. Ice reflects sunlight, and that sunlight is not converted to heat here on Earth. In addition it takes only 1 btu to change the temperature of ice or water 1 degree Fahrenheit, (sensible heat), but it takes 144 btu's to change the state from ice to water, (latent heat), at the same temperature. As we lose polar ice, the sun's light striking the dark ocean is converted to heat, but the remaining ice keeps temperatures at about freezing. When the floating sea ice is gone, the negative feedback, and stabilizing effect it brings with it, will be gone. Then we will see a sensible temperature rise of the water by 1 degree Fahrenheit per btu per pound of water. This is UNCHARTED TERRITORY! It is likely to happen, because we are likely doing too little too late. Let's hope that it is something that we can live with.
Just because you "need" something to be true or untrue doesn't make it so. It is what it is, and science, (real science), is seeking the truth. As Jack Nicholson said, "You want the truth, you can't handle the truth".

[senormechanico]

Meanwhile the owners of CF are laughing all the way to the bank because of the traffic to the site...

[Southern Star]

There is no evidence to suggest, let alone prove that global temperatures have been rising over the last 15 years, regardless of the cause. The scientists who promote this ridiculous notion out of blatant self-interest must interpret temperature readings over a wide range of areas and times in order to determine what is truly a global effect. The alleged satellite imagery of our rapidly reducing polar ice caps can only prove that at certain points in the year it may be warmer in those regions. England, on the other hand, has had a couple of their coldest winters on record over the same time period.

Rising sea levels? Consistent with the melting polar caps, but again intepretation is required in order to link that with 'global' warming.

Observable holes in the ozone layer and increaed skin cancer, especially in the higher and lower lattitudes? Even assuming that this is not a regularly recurring phenomenon ( and there was no way to measure this in the past), interpretation is still required in order to establish any link with carbon emissions. I believe that these phenomenon are all part of God's plan and that we are foolhardy to think that we could in any meaningful way interfere with, let alone destroy his creation. Rather, I believe that the theories on global warming that are supported by a great preponderance of the scientific community are nothing but a continuation of a long standing conspiracy by men of science to deny the existence of God. The deification of figures such as Darwin, who also used vast amounts of subjective interpretation of his observations in order to advance his theory, was only one example of the undue respect that we pay to our 'scientific' community.

People, when you are finished looking around, you may wish to look up for your answers. For those of us who know to distrust the majority of those who are members of the scientific community, I say "keep the faith"!

[Kenomac]

CO2 is GOOD for life. A warming planet is a GOOD thing. For most of the earths history, the planet has been WARMER than it is now. Plants eat CO2 and produce the oxygen that we breathe. Without CO2 and plants..... Humans would die. Why would we all die? Because we eat plants and breathe oxygen.

It's really that simple....

Is that what the church of the global warming crowd want? Human life to die?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cA6WZ4SX_-0

[Foozinator]

Originally Posted by Southern Star

I believe that these phenomenon are all part of God's plan and that we are foolhardy to think that we could in any meaningful way interfere with, let alone destroy his creation.

So, what do you say when Kingdom Come and most of His species were wiped out by us and entire lands polluted by us? "Like what we've done with the place" ?

Where I come from, if someone gives you a gift, especially one so huge and glorious as All of Creation, you take care of it. If nothing else, out of respect for the One who gave it to you.

[Foozinator]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

For most of the earths history, the planet has been WARMER than it is now.

If insects large enough to kill and eat small teenagers and apex predators capable of stomping cars flat are your idea of an ideal environment, I have to disagree.

High CO2 levels did make the plants in Bio Sphere 2 grow more vigorously. The lack of oxygen also had the human inhabitants hallucinating. Again, not a place I'd want to live.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Foozinator

High CO2 levels did make the plants in Bio Sphere 2 grow more vigorously. The lack of oxygen also had the human inhabitants hallucinating. Again, not a place I'd want to live.

The last time I checked, we weren't living inside a sealed globe with a few plants. The biosphere inhabitants were more likely hallucinating on the methane gas produced by their own waste inside the globe.

The earth is vast, which most humans who primarily live in congested cities don't realize and can't comprehend. Vast open areas with oxygen producing plants growing everywhere. Your Jurassic Park biosphere model is ridiculous. The giant insects and land monsters you're so worried about would also need to breathe oxygen.... probably more oxygen than us humans.

[alctel]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

CO2 is GOOD for life. A warming planet is a GOOD thing. For most of the earths history, the planet has been WARMER than it is now. Plants eat CO2 and produce the oxygen that we breathe. Without CO2 and plants..... Humans would die. Why would we all die? Because we eat plants and breathe oxygen.

Thanks for the elementary level biology lesson, it's a good job no-one is suggesting getting rid of all CO2 then!

CO2 is a natural part of the environment. Unfortunately we have serious thrown it all out of balance overwhelming the natural balance that the planet is able to cope with and self-regulate. For example oceans have been swallowing up the excess CO2 but are almost at saturation point, and the vegetation cover on the earth is the lowest it's been since human history began - it's not just that we are increasing CO2 production, we are simultaneously reducing all the methods the planet has for keeping itself in check. Stuff is happening on a timescale of 10's of years, not millions.

And if a mammoth extinction event, rising sea levels and ever more unpredictable weather is a good thing, I'd hate to see what you consider a bad thing

[Foozinator]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

The last time I checked, we weren't living inside a sealed globe with a few plants. The biosphere inhabitants were more likely hallucinating on the methane gas produced by their own waste inside the globe.

The earth is vast, which most humans who primarily live in congested cities don't realize and can't comprehend. Vast open areas with oxygen producing plants growing everywhere. Your Jurassic Park biosphere model is ridiculous. The giant insects and land monsters you're so worried about would also need to breathe oxygen.... probably more oxygen than us humans.

I'm not making creatures up. These animals actually lived, back when the Earth was much warmer and had more CO2 and, yes, oxygen.

[Rustic Charm]

I know there is just a few of you that love debating your views on the environment, but what on earth ( ) has this got to do with sailing? or 'cruising' ?

[cestrickler]

I assume this was a serious question and I agree that there is no planet B. The first thing we need to do is get a price on carbon (citizenclimatelobby.org) Thet are a porponent of fee and dividend which puts money in a carbon bank and every citizen get some back to help offset costs as prices go up. Each can decide where we will curt our carbon use. I am more than willing to put solar panels on my house and make it energy efficient in order to spend a little more for some diesel. I will be a little less apt to turn on the engine if it is very expensive. And someone mentioned that in 20 yrs or so we will have better and cheaper electric engines to run on our solar panels on our boats with very little cost and m no stinkpot pollution. We all need to take this serious, because it is.

[alctel]

It's not so much that electric engines aren't there, it's the problem of battery and energy storage that is the issue