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Old 04-05-2012, 18:38   #76
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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... It would actually be much cheaper to try a humanitarian approach in that part of the world than a military, and those who are suggesting we have been doing so for a long time to no effect are just wrong. Private charities and the UN have pumped in much aid, but without military backing it all just gets taken by whichever warlord is in power at the moment.

Yepper. That's my point.
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Old 04-05-2012, 19:15   #77
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

Im gonna get heck for this ! BUT Here go's I feel the same as I did over VN I left there in 69 ! and felt we would have done better to turn it into a smoking sheet of glass !! Saved a lot of my friends lives if we had !! I feel the same about this place, give em a choice stop or die ! Just my 2 cents
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Old 04-05-2012, 19:15   #78
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

Someone somewhere said not to carry guns because it would not deter pirates....for some reason it never occured to use them as a defense. This was actually the reasoning a govt gave for not allowing guns....best that only the criminals carry guns, right?
That said is there a way to carry a gun on board (sealed by customs) through waters of a country that does not allow fire arms?

Guns on boats

In a nutshell, legally registered guns are useless in port and in country. Unregistered guns are a coin flip to boat confiscation and foreign prison sentence if discovered (which also means if you use a gun to defend yourself in port or in country you will be in violation of that country's laws.). So, legally carried guns are only legally useful for at-sea defense.
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Old 04-05-2012, 19:21   #79
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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Someone somewhere said not to carry guns because it would not deter pirates....for some reason it never occured to use them as a defense. This was actually the reasoning a govt gave for not allowing guns....best that only the criminals carry guns, right?
That said is there a way to carry a gun on board (sealed by customs) through waters of a country that does not allow fire arms?
It all depends on which anchor you're using.
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Old 04-05-2012, 19:25   #80
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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Private charities and the UN have pumped in much aid, but without military backing it all just gets taken by whichever warlord is in power at the moment.
From what i've read thats really only partly true, there are Islamic aid agencies getting food to people in Somalia, not providing AK's.

I believe if you put most of us in their shoes, starving for years, powerless to save our families in a society without rules, we would do the same. It would seem a rather nobler direction to try and help our fellow man, lessening their misery could only help to stop them making others miserable.

Granted it's a hell of a task tho, how could you create some kind order and safety out of such chaos?
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Old 04-05-2012, 19:44   #81
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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Im gonna get heck for this ! BUT Here go's I feel the same as I did over VN I left there in 69 ! and felt we would have done better to turn it into a smoking sheet of glass !! Saved a lot of my friends lives if we had !! I feel the same about this place, give em a choice stop or die ! Just my 2 cents
Vietnam was just the chess board where the game played out, surely it would have been fairer to turn the players countries into a sheets of glass rather than the pawns?

(not condoning any sheets of glass btw, thats a no-win endgame)
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Old 04-05-2012, 19:53   #82
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

Some societies are dysfunctional. If they aren't willing to change, why should we support them, making our society that much weaker and poorer? As it is, we have already made many warlords, dictators, and corrupt officials rich at their peoples' expense.
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Old 04-05-2012, 19:55   #83
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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Vietnam was just the chess board where the game played out, surely it would have been fairer to turn the players countries into a sheets of glass rather than the pawns?

(not condoning any sheets of glass btw, thats a no-win endgame)
As they say .... "It is a foolish bird that soils its own nest" ...and we would never want to do that.
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Old 04-05-2012, 19:59   #84
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

I have to listen to another variant of this same theme almost every day in criminal court: "Your Honor, somebody in this courtroom is guilty, but it's definitely not MY client!"

There are many peoples, countries, & ethnic groups that have been subjected to terrible wrongs over the ages. Some have had the means to respond with violence against their tormentors, with varying success. A much smaller percentage have turned to violence against innocent people. The ones who have turned their attention to being industrious rather than resentful are the ones who have created a future for themselves. There's no justification for violence against innocents, and it will get the people who are aggrieved -- justifiably so or not -- nowhere. These pious arguments to the contrary are only enabling the bad behavior. The world should help with resources, but only when this can be effective, not because it assuages someone's guilt over having been born in the First World.

The Somali pirates are not the ones who will move the country forward. If you really want to give the responsible Somalis a chance and not prolong the country's agony, you'll appreciate why, for awhile anyway, responsible nations and individuals are going to have to shoot back.
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Old 04-05-2012, 20:03   #85
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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I have to listen to another variant of this same theme almost every day in criminal court: "Your Honor, somebody in this courtroom is guilty, but it's definitely not MY client!"

There are many peoples, countries, & ethnic groups that have been subjected to terrible wrongs over the ages. Some have had the means to respond with violence against their tormentors, with varying success. A much smaller percentage have turned to violence against innocent people. The ones who have turned their attention to being industrious rather than resentful are the ones who have created a future for themselves. There's no justification for violence against innocents, and it will get the people who are aggrieved -- justifiably so or not -- nowhere. These pious arguments to the contrary are only enabling the bad behavior. The world should help with resources, but only when this can be effective, not because it assuages someone's guilt over having been born in the First World.

The Somali pirates are not the ones who will move the country forward. If you really want to give the responsible Somalis a chance and not prolong the country's agony, you'll appreciate why, for awhile anyway, responsible nations and individuals are going to have to shoot back.
great post

i just don't think we can give up even after past failures.
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Old 05-05-2012, 00:04   #86
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

Not saying pirates should be treated nothing else as criminals, but making a question how we ended up in this situation. Outside powers have inflicted into Somalian takeovers and rebels. Last islamistic government was thrown out thou they would chopped of the hand of all thiefs and pirates but it was not good enough for some...
Just IMHO
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Old 05-05-2012, 02:03   #87
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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Yes, I was being facetious. Was I too subtle?
Not for most of us
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Old 05-05-2012, 02:16   #88
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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I doesn't matter keep hitting the buggers and they may all keep away.
And that goes for all you rich cruisers who are paying as much as a weeks local wages for a couple of bits of fruit. When us poor cruisers offer the going rate we get told to fire truck off and give money.
Well that was a broadside out of left field... but I happen to agree
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Old 05-05-2012, 02:26   #89
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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The irony is that for a country that does not exist and never has and never will - Somalia don't half cause a lot of problems!

Somalia exists in the same way that DOJ_Land exists, it don't matter how many people draw lines on a map, or even if the UN give it a seat - The Eastern Seaboard of the USA, NW Afghanistan and Lapland won't ever exist as a single country......no matter how many people want it to be so.....or only the one person .

Top tip - if half of your country is killing the other half (and vice verce) your country has problems , if your country has ten halves (or more )and is doing the same then it doesn't exist as a country - time to try a plan B.

For "Somalia" the answer is:-

1) Divide it into 3 (Puntland / Somaliland / The ***** that is left over Land).
2) Sharia Law
3) More Guns
I heard you guys have just had elections.... Hope you got a seat
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Old 05-05-2012, 02:36   #90
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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Sure you would


That really cracked me up. Often think the same thing when we get a rush of keyboard gunslingers here LMAO
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