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Old 07-05-2012, 04:32   #151
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

I think the fishing thing was only part of the initial problem - my take is that Piracy (on the current scale) was largely an extention of the Yemen - Somalia smuggling trade (guns, people and whatever). The Pirates / Smugglers / Fishermen (I am sure many had more than one hat!) were probably surprised that first robbing (and then grabbing) the small stuff (inlcuding foreign fishing vessels) didn't result in serious consequences - so grabbing the big stuff was simply a natural extention. (and I am sure that they were always prepared to tackle rivals that way!).

The time to nip the problem in the bud was long ago, now that the capacity and skills exist in depth the solution can only come from onshore - anything at sea is simply a sticking plaster.

IMO the best sticking plaster approach is not so much shooting "Pirates" on sight, but going after the prizes - a container ship is not exactly easy to hide, don't need to sink it when moored just make it (and the cargo) valueless - and enforce the current laws about paying money to "terrorists" or criminals (you paid to get your ship back? - you go to jail).

The Crew? Well, they mostly being 3rd world do have little commercial value (and likely they alone would not make the business commercially viable). Take away the millions and you cut the legs away from the business and over time also degrade the capacity to do so (sending ships and skiffs out is not cheap and is not a simple excercise).
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Old 07-05-2012, 04:46   #152
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
...and enforce the current laws about paying money to "terrorists" or criminals (you paid to get your ship back? - you go to jail).
I'm not familiar with those laws, how do they work and who imposes them?

Sounds like they make the victim the criminal?
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:12   #153
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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Its not about going to Somalia, but getting to the red sea, I for one would like to do my circumnavigation before I get to old, I am ready now and have been for the last 2 years. But only a fool would do it today. I just will not put my loved ones into that kind of danger.
Like you a number of cruisers have parked their boats either here in Thailand or in Malaysia waiting for the situation to improve before continuing on with their circumnavigation. But you can't wait forever. I've also heard some have just bit the bullet and shipped their boats from India over to the Med. Expensive but not as much as you might think and at least they are continuing on. And of course, there is always the South Africa route.
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:26   #154
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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Like you a number of cruisers have parked their boats either here in Thailand or in Malaysia waiting for the situation to improve before continuing on with their circumnavigation. But you can't wait forever. I've also heard some have just bit the bullet and shipped their boats from India over to the Med. Expensive but not as much as you might think and at least they are continuing on. And of course, there is always the South Africa route.
South Africa is not so safe and getting worse. South African Navy Proactive as Piracy Threatens Southern Waters

west Africa has also caught the bug. Piracy Rises in Oil-Rich West Africa | Africa | English
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:50   #155
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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I'm not familiar with those laws, how do they work and who imposes them?

Sounds like they make the victim the criminal?
Mostly anti-money laundering laws. Every country has them nowadays (enforcement varies - but US has a big enough stick to ensure that folks comply with their own laws when told to, on an "if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem" basis). Broadly speaking commercial shipping companies are legitimate operations and certainly with trading internationally they do have a business interest in keeping on the right side of Uncle Sam....and that includes the Directors. Even without going to jail, won't want company and selves to be on a US backed black list - even if it is not universally enforced. Shipping company not playing ball - first step would be their bankers, they usually don't want to go to jail! No bank accounts = no business.

You give money to Al Quaida and it is a crime - saying that you didn't know they would blow stuff up is no defence. Same as for giving money to the Mob or Colombian Coke dealers. It's not about giving the money to a bad man in exchange for something "bad" - it's the simple fact that you gave the money to a bad man, doing so for good reasons is not a defence. A blind eye might be turned, but not neccessarily so.

It's a bit like "wire fraud" - laws designed to be a catch all.

As I said, existing laws - not anything new, and certainly nothing required under the UN!

Welcome to the brave new world.
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:28   #156
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

To bad someone don't start an escort service with an armed ship to get folks thru the area where the problems are ! 1 or 2 armed ships could escort a bunch of vessels at one time ! or maybe a barge type transport thru the area maybe ?? just a couple of thoughts ?
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:49   #157
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

If one takes actions that result in the deaths of potential innocents, one is condemned. If one fails to take action and doing so results in the deaths of the undeniably innocent, should one not be equally condemned? Or more so?

Society seems to have adopted the second alternative--take no action because innocents might possibly be harmed but with the concomitant certainty that, other, innocents will be harmed. This is the lesser of two evils? I think not.

When few if any aspiring pirates, and/or their mother ships, feigning "fishing trips", return from their foreys, few if any will venture out. But not until.
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:55   #158
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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My suggestion on how to deal with pirates:
1: Barret .50 For long range
What's the bet you aren't as good a shot from a rolling deck at a moving target as you think you are.

Whats the bet that they will have weight in numbers and weapons and fill you and your's full of lead for trying.
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:59   #159
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great post

i just don't think we can give up even after past failures.
Great post
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:14   #160
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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What's the bet you aren't as good a shot from a rolling deck at a moving target as you think you are.

Whats the bet that they will have weight in numbers and weapons and fill you and your's full of lead for trying.
Not to mention-how in the hell are you going to get a .50 anywhere near Somalia!? I think in most countries the real pirates you need to worry about are the local officials. A gun won't help you at all there, quite the opposite. Even in the extremely rare countries that won't take your arms, they would definitely confiscate a Barret just to get it for themselves. Or any other really nice weapon. The obvious reality to anyone who has any experience traveling whatsoever is that this sort of talk is just childish fantasy from the same people who act all surprised and offended when people from counties other than the US make the usual stereotype of the redneck gun nut. I hate this because it makes Americans look like morons. Total divorce from reality due to too much TV.
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:32   #161
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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Not to mention-how in the hell are you going to get a .50 anywhere near Somalia!? I think in most countries the real pirates you need to worry about are the local officials. A gun won't help you at all there, quite the opposite. Even in the extremely rare countries that won't take your arms, they would definitely confiscate a Barret just to get it for themselves. Or any other really nice weapon. The obvious reality to anyone who has any experience traveling whatsoever is that this sort of talk is just childish fantasy from the same people who act all surprised and offended when people from counties other than the US make the usual stereotype of the redneck gun nut. I hate this because it makes Americans look like morons. Total divorce from reality due to too much TV.
Another knowledgeable gun owner . . .
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:38   #162
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I'm so conflicted here. I'm an American that lives in the South and I have guns in my home. I don't bring guns onboard, because I see no need where I sail. I think pirates should be shot, but I don't sail near pirates. What is a gun toting redneck to do?

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Old 07-05-2012, 09:51   #163
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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I'm so conflicted here. I'm an American that lives in the South and I have guns in my home. I don't bring guns onboard, because I see no need where I sail. I think pirates should be shot, but I don't sail near pirates. What is a gun toting redneck to do?

Sounds to me like ur one of dem . . . errrr . . . how u say . . . 'cultured' gun-totin' American rednecks. Confusin', t'aint it?
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Old 07-05-2012, 13:28   #164
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Ok, I posted that list of weapons back there. I was being sarcastic. Though I was serious about the last part, AVOID PIRATED WATERS!!! Though I must say, I plan to gave a trusty 1911 and a long gun with me WHEREVER I GO some day. Just because there are bad people in the world, and you never know where they are or what they'd do to you or your loved ones. So if a boat load of pirates comes for me, then I plan to take as many of them down with me as I can. Or better send them to the bottom and keep on sailing.
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Old 07-05-2012, 18:07   #165
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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What's the bet you aren't as good a shot from a rolling deck at a moving target as you think you are.

Whats the bet that they will have weight in numbers and weapons and fill you and your's full of lead for trying.
How about the bad guy's, are they better shots. Sounds like a fighting chance to me.. ..Michael..
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