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Old 06-05-2012, 10:09   #136
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
I think what he was saying was, what would the entire US look like after 5 days of no food, let alone 5 years?
I think it would probably look much worse than Somalia. No way everyone will quietly starve to death without crime or conflict.
Yea, I got it.

Quietly starving is not a human trait. Crime and conflict is. Hunger magnifys it for sure.

Still assuming the root is lack of fish the UN fish delivery program is the best, quickest, cheapest, and most fair solution.
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Old 06-05-2012, 10:33   #137
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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Yea, I got it.

Quietly starving is not a human trait. Crime and conflict is. Hunger magnifys it for sure.

Still assuming the root is lack of fish the UN fish delivery program is the best, quickest, cheapest, and most fair solution.
Of course it is. And what about the equally impoverished countries nearby like Sudan & Eritrea who also have coastlines along major shipping routes but who's citizens are NOT engaged in armed violence & hostage-taking against innocents? Those countries also suffered at the hands of western colonial powers & errant cartographers. How come India is making progress & Pakistan remains a disaster? Rather than blowing up Germans after WWII the Israelis figured out how to farm the desert, whereas the Palestinians spend all of their time trying to figure out how to destroy the Israelis. And most of the rest of the world enables it based on their own arrogant & ignorant sense of "justice."

As stated before, there are plenty of injustices to go around, along with an equal number of justifications for resorting to violence. The point is not that the Somalians or other such victims may not be justified, but rather that it won't get them anywhere in the short or the long run. But neither will a bunch of fish!
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Old 06-05-2012, 10:55   #138
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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Of course it is. And what about the equally impoverished countries nearby like Sudan & Eritrea who also have coastlines along major shipping routes but who's citizens are NOT engaged in armed violence & hostage-taking against innocents? Those countries also suffered at the hands of western colonial powers & errant cartographers. How come India is making progress & Pakistan remains a disaster? Rather than blowing up Germans after WWII the Israelis figured out how to farm the desert, whereas the Palestinians spend all of their time trying to figure out how to destroy the Israelis. And most of the rest of the world enables it based on their own arrogant & ignorant sense of "justice."

As stated before, there are plenty of injustices to go around, along with an equal number of justifications for resorting to violence. The point is not that the Somalians or other such victims may not be justified, but rather that it won't get them anywhere in the short or the long run. But neither will a bunch of fish!
Dang!
I thought I had saved (part of) the world.
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:14   #139
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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Dang!
I thought I had saved (part of) the world.
Maybe you need more hobbies?
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Old 06-05-2012, 14:27   #140
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

I think this thread is missing the point. In the second video, where the old man said we have to engage in piracy because we don't catch enough fish. Every Fishing boat, and panga was propelled by an outboard made in a western nation, I even saw a Honda engine.

Somalia has never had the industry or technology to even make a steam engine. So now it is the western worlds fault, that we provided them with boats, and engines, and gas, and oil, and parts, but they aren't catching as much fish as we promised they would.

Perhaps if they spent more time fishing, and less time looking for people to rob??? We gave them the fishing industry, just as we gave them the leftover cold war weapons, that they are using to rob, instead of using them to enforce the law and protect their country.
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Old 06-05-2012, 14:45   #141
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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Originally Posted by capn_billl View Post
I think this thread is missing the point. In the second video, where the old man said we have to engage in piracy because we don't catch enough fish. Every Fishing boat, and panga was propelled by an outboard made in a western nation, I even saw a Honda engine.

Somalia has never had the industry or technology to even make a steam engine. So now it is the western worlds fault, that we provided them with boats, and engines, and gas, and oil, and parts, but they aren't catching as much fish as we promised they would.

Perhaps if they spent more time fishing, and less time looking for people to rob??? We gave them the fishing industry, just as we gave them the leftover cold war weapons, that they are using to rob, instead of using them to enforce the law and protect their country.

Ahem, those people have known how to fish for many a millenia. It's how they fed themselves. What was not happening for the overwhelming majority of that time was people from foreign lands coming into the waters off their coast and over fishing (just as they did in the waters off their own lands) and not leaving enough fish behind for the local fishermen to bring in the food as they had for many a millenia. Local fishermen eek out a meager existence. It's not a corporate enterprise, but rather a way to survive. As soon as the foreigners have depleted the fish stocks in those waters, they'll be off to overfish waters elsewhere, creating the very same havoc for yet another group of peoples. It's thoughtless vulturism, pure and simple.

None of this excuses criminal behaviuor, but one can't ignore that pirating was not a major problem in those waters prior to the arrival of those foreign fishing fleets after the government who had been protecting those waters fell.
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Old 06-05-2012, 14:55   #142
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My suggestion on how to deal with pirates:
1: Barret .50 For long range
2: an ar-15 for mid and close range
3: a .45 for on the boat
4: a .50 cal machine gun if they have a bigger boat the yours
5: a good rope for the survivors.
Optional:
1: a boat load of us marines
2: a naval destroyer, no more than 10-15 years old so its somewhat modern
Realistically: STAY AWAY FROM PIRATED WATERS!!!!!
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Old 06-05-2012, 15:58   #143
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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Originally Posted by Lt. View Post
My suggestion on how to deal with pirates:
1: Barret .50 For long range
2: an ar-15 for mid and close range
3: a .45 for on the boat
4: a .50 cal machine gun if they have a bigger boat the yours
5: a good rope for the survivors.
Optional:
1: a boat load of us marines
2: a naval destroyer, no more than 10-15 years old so its somewhat modern
Realistically: STAY AWAY FROM PIRATED WATERS!!!!!


Actually, you last statement makes sense.
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Old 06-05-2012, 16:02   #144
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. View Post
My suggestion on how to deal with pirates:
1: Barret .50 For long range
2: an ar-15 for mid and close range
3: a .45 for on the boat
4: a .50 cal machine gun if they have a bigger boat the yours
5: a good rope for the survivors.
Optional:
1: a boat load of us marines
2: a naval destroyer, no more than 10-15 years old so its somewhat modern
Realistically: STAY AWAY FROM PIRATED WATERS!!!!!
Agreed, but i wonder if i could run one of these with Solar panels.....

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Old 06-05-2012, 16:43   #145
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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Originally Posted by Aussiesuede View Post
Ahem, those people have known how to fish for many a millenia. It's how they fed themselves. What was not happening for the overwhelming majority of that time was people from foreign lands coming into the waters off their coast and over fishing (just as they did in the waters off their own lands) and not leaving enough fish behind for the local fishermen to bring in the food as they had for many a millenia. Local fishermen eek out a meager existence. It's not a corporate enterprise, but rather a way to survive. As soon as the foreigners have depleted the fish stocks in those waters, they'll be off to overfish waters elsewhere, creating the very same havoc for yet another group of peoples. It's thoughtless vulturism, pure and simple.

None of this excuses criminal behaviuor, but one can't ignore that pirating was not a major problem in those waters prior to the arrival of those foreign fishing fleets after the government who had been protecting those waters fell.

It's just a human trait.

Don't kid yourself. Pirating has always been a problem there. You just hear about this type because now we have CNN. Ask Vasco Da Gama. (the latest - Holy War by Nigel Cliff)
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Old 06-05-2012, 16:44   #146
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

anything regarding sailing/boating left in this "discussion" because I haven't seen it in the last few pages
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Old 06-05-2012, 17:05   #147
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

Nothing we haven't seen in every pirate thread. Maybe the point is catharsis? Otherwise it can be a little hard to find.
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Old 06-05-2012, 17:24   #148
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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Actually, you last statement makes sense.
Only if you have no ambition to get out of your own back yard.
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Old 06-05-2012, 17:55   #149
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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Only if you have no ambition to get out of your own back yard.
Fortunately my backyard is not around Somalia. Can't speak for the rest of the crowd but I doubt many live in that area.
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Old 07-05-2012, 02:49   #150
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Re: The Way to Treat Pirates

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Fortunately my backyard is not around Somalia. Can't speak for the rest of the crowd but I doubt many live in that area.
Its not about going to Somalia, but getting to the red sea, I for one would like to do my circumnavigation before I get to old, I am ready now and have been for the last 2 years. But only a fool would do it today. I just will not put my loved ones into that kind of danger.
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