The Philosophy Behind Sailing Simply and Cheaply

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

And just try to find whale oil and buggy whips in north america... The world is going to he11 in a handbasket.

I know I am going to say this wrong and get on the wrong side of this discussion...

Mahathir basically told the west to pound sand in regards to logging and polution. Someone mentioned the 3rd world getting their 100 years of polution and environmental destruction. That was Mahathir's point as well. However, the developing world should be able to help them leapfrog us in terms of renewable growth.

In regards to indigenous species, I think that we don't seek them out or seek to disturb their ways but if they come out of the jungle looking for shotguns and rum who are we to say no? It's pretty arrogant in my mind that we say, "no get your butts back in the trees", but my philosophy is pretty darn different than everyone else.

It starts with manage my footprint as small as practicable but dont forget I am at the top of the food chain. I'm gonna use what I think I need, responsibly.

The planet is strong. Way stronger than any of us. When she is ready, or when an astrological event happens, she will shake us off like fleas on a dogs back. Whatever species are left will take over. Yes maybe roaches for a while. We are arrogant thinking we can stop it or more importantly the will to work together as a species to solve the issues.

The world has gone from something like 5 billion to 7.5 billion in the last 50 years. There is lots of space left and lots of basic resources but the draining of fossil fuel is inevitable and with fracking, which I am concerned about but haven't seen the science for, big change is inevitable. Humans are the fossil fuel crackheads of the planet and we will destroy ourselves getting the last drops out.

Save the Planet? No need. The planet wil be here long after we are gone. Save ourselves? Don't see it happening...

I think you said it fine, and I'll have to join you on that wrong side of the discussion.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

;-)

It is more perhaps related to what kind of people they are than to the size of boat they are sailing?
We have a 26' mono and we made great and lasting friendships with a number of 50+ bells and whistlers. Accidentally, we had to steer well clear of some small craft that we happened to meet along the way ...

!

barnie

Well Shut mah mouth.....
I never thought of that....
Was not the 21 footer.... just the smug ******* on it....
Cheers mate... may just make it to a Barbie one day... if I can be less smug...

[s/v Beth]

Well at this point I have said about all I want to say. I think we will all go on sailing. Hopefully, we will sail with thoughtfulness and will be careful of what is around us. In fact, that is one of my favorite things-
Slip silently into a harbor.
Set the hook on sail,
Dingy in without saying a word.
Get my stuff,
and leave before anyone realizes I'm there...

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Ex-Calif

The planet is strong. Way stronger than any of us. When she is ready, or when an astrological event happens, she will shake us off like fleas on a dogs back. Whatever species are left will take over. Yes maybe roaches for a while. We are arrogant thinking we can stop it or more importantly the will to work together as a species to solve the issues.

...

Save the Planet? No need. The planet wil be here long after we are gone. Save ourselves? Don't see it happening...

Well said to my ears Ex.

This realization crystallized for me one day when I was paddling down a remote river on a solo canoe trip. I realized (probably after doing something silly in a set of rapids) that the planet doesn't care whether I, or my species, or indeed any species, continues to survive. The planet will go on just fine with or without us.

But what is truly interesting is that we -- Homo sapiens -- can see into the future, and we can also care about other species and ecosystems.

I find this fascinating.

[sparau]

This seems like a fair time and place to add a question, somewhat off simple sailing but it seems like that kind of thread

My business partner and i were discussing the other day about how when we need to employ support and staff how best to do it.

we were talking about sending work off-shore (from aus), not for the usual reason of low wages, but rather to help even out some of the monetary imbalances between nations. obviously it would be easier to choose an english speaking nation with some education (basically 1st level support on an IT product), so not exactly trying to subvert an untainted culture.

it could be possible (once i have a boat and become capable...) of sailing somewhere and setting up the infrastructure and training to do it. thoughts? there's been some good pros and cons in this thread.

about the only thing i thought was a complete no-no would be to go to a culture where time is not important and introduce 8 hour work days... lol, i can't imagine anything more hideous to introduce! perhaps train more people for shorter shifts, share the income around also?

i suppose clearly the easiest thing (and arguably best) would be to find a remotish location in aus where there wasn't much industry and introduce one.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

the planet doesn't care whether I, or my species, or indeed any species, continues to survive. The planet will go on just fine with or without us.

At least until the sun Explodes

My understanding (AKA vague recollection!) is that for most of the Earth's existence it hasn't been capable of sustaining any life, human or not....so we are only a (minor) abberation from the norm.

The good news is that if we suck out all the oil and destroy the atmosphere we will only be returning the earth to it's natural / normal state .....and who can quibble with that?

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

... My understanding (AKA vague recollection!) is that for most of the Earth's existence it hasn't been capable of sustaining any life, human or not ...

As I understand it, “Life” has existed on earth for over 80% of it’s history.

The Earth is probably a little over 4.5 billion years old; and life on Earth began, with single-celled prokaryotic cells (like bacteria), about 3.8 billion years ago.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by GordMay

As I understand it, “Life” has existed on earth for over 80% of it’s history.

The Earth is probably a little over 4.5 billion years old; and life on Earth began, with single-celled prokaryotic cells (like bacteria), about 3.8 billion years ago.

Exactly!. "Life" is more the norm than not, at least on our little chunk of rock (so far). We've got another 4.5-5 billion years before being consumed by Sol as it goes through its red giant stage.

Of course, while life has been the norm, our kind of life; oxygen-breathers, really didn't take hold until about 1.2 billion years ago (if memory serves). Before that our atmosphere was dominated by CO2, SO2 and CH4. Earth's atmosphere very much resembled Venus of today. Not a very hospitable place for you or I.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by sparau

(...)

about the only thing i thought was a complete no-no would be to go to a culture where time is not important and introduce 8 hour work days... lol, i can't imagine anything more hideous to introduce! perhaps train more people for shorter shifts, share the income around also?

(...)

This IS a whole new story. And a good topic for a whole separate thread (although possibly in a different forum).

You know there are some people who really never took to the western idea of work at all (e.g. indigenous Australians). There are also EU countries where 8 hour work days are actually a pretty intangible thing.

b.

[conachair]

Living the Uncalculated Life--Alan Watts - YouTube

Maybe we are all living the simple life anyway, but just kid ourselves otherwise..

[Mike OReilly]

It's clear from research that humans excel at self delusion. We do what we want, and then rationalize our behaviour with a narrative. That narrative often makes some sort of sense, but sometimes even we can tell we're fooling ourselves.

In The Happiness Hypothesis, Jonathan Haidt creates the analogy of the human riding the elephant to explain the relationship between the rational self and the emotional self. The rational self, the rider, can nudge and guide the emotional self, the elephant, as long as the elephant is happy to go that way, or at least is ambivalent. But as soon as the elephant, the emotional self, wants something, all bets are off. The rider no longer has any control, and is simply taken along for the ride. In the end, the rider is left trying to explain why his/her elephant just trampled through a fence to get to some delicious melons.

The research on all this suggests we humans are in far less rational control than we delude ourselves into believing. We want to live a comfortable life, so we rationalize our use of energy, resources, etc. We want to live and cruise on a sailboat, so we create all manner of rational reasons around living simply and cheaply .

It's all great fun.

[s/v Beth]

My response to Mr Watts:
Invictus by William Ernest Henley:
Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.
In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds and shall find me unafraid.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

So take that Bainbridge Scholars!

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

The rational self, the rider, can nudge and guide the emotional self, the elephant, as long as the elephant is happy to go that way, or at least is ambivalent. But as soon as the elephant, the emotional self, wants something, all bets are off. The rider no longer has any control, and is simply taken along for the ride. In the end, the rider is left trying to explain why his/her elephant just trampled through a fence to get to some delicious melons.

Nice analogy. Luckily, with it living on s boat and all, my elephant is a big fan of not really having any roots anywhere and is very keen on a fair degree of self reliance

New mission statement on-board. "Forget mission statements, just follow the elephant"

My elephant fancies a quick pint

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by conachair

Nice analogy. Luckily, with it living on s boat and all, my elephant is a big fan of not really having any roots anywhere and is very keen on a fair degree of self reliance

New mission statement on-board. "Forget mission statements, just follow the elephant"

My elephant fancies a quick pint

Yup, as Watts was saying, the key to life is to follow the elephant ... hopefully he takes me to that pint of beer I'm not craving. Thanks Conachair

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

My response to Mr Watts:
Invictus by William Ernest Henley:
Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.
In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds and shall find me unafraid.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

So take that Bainbridge Scholars!

Ah, if only it were true .

Actually, research suggests it is possible to take more command of the elephant (to stick with the analogy). Haidt writes that there are three proven ways to change the elephant: Years of psychotherapy (western approach), years of meditation training (eastern approach), or psychometric drugs (easy approach).

To my thinking, you just gotta love who you are. Kick the elephant around when you can. Smooth out the ugly edges as best you can. But in the end you gotta accept who you really are.