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Old 03-09-2012, 05:59   #661
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
Did you look at the PRICE on that book? Over $215 new, over $60 used. No chance on Amazon to even do the "peek inside" thing!

That sounds like a COLOSSAL rip-off to me.
The book is out of print and that's why they're asking so much. I had a copy, maybe still do somewhere, but I think I donated it to the marina library. The info inside was good at the time but its all be said many times over in other books since. Moitessier's "A Sea Vagabond's World" is a good example. Also, "The Cost Conscious Cruiser" by the Pardey's.
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Old 03-09-2012, 06:06   #662
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Re: The Philosophy Behind Sailing Simply and Cheaply

There are other copies for much more reasonable prices.

I have a paper back in excellent condition I'd be happy to sell for $60
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Old 03-09-2012, 06:08   #663
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Re: The Philosophy Behind Sailing Simply and Cheaply

I have a paperback copy on the shelf next to me. Came with the boat.

Read a few pages and didn't enjoy it.


PM me your address Raku, if you like and I'll mail it to you, no charge.

Greg
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:57   #664
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Re: The Philosophy Behind Sailing Simply and Cheaply

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Originally Posted by four winds View Post
I have a paperback copy on the shelf next to me. Came with the boat.

Read a few pages and didn't enjoy it.


PM me your address Raku, if you like and I'll mail it to you, no charge.

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There's someone with the right mindset.
"Can't we all just get along?"
I think there is something highly ironic in spending 60-200 USD on a book about making life simpler.
Let's see (as he looks around) Yeah I can do without that, and that I can sell on Craigslist...
And life goes on.
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Old 03-09-2012, 13:43   #665
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Re: The Philosophy Behind Sailing Simply and Cheaply

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Did I miss something ... where is your problem? It sounds like you like things just the way they are.
The problem is that there's always tension between the extremes, there's always a debate over the choices, opportunity costs to use a econ term -- as we can see from the 45 pages of this thread. When I'm at the office there's always more to do, one more hill to climb, one more project to finish. When I'm on the boat sipping coffee at dawn, the office is the last place I want to be. Do we buy the dream boat next season or refi the mortgage to a better rate and finally install that home theater room? Simplicity or complexity. Small footprint, big footprint. Laying in a hammock, or buffing the hull? Which do I like better, a bright-polished stainless anchor that throws twinkles onto the water splashing under the bow pulpit, or sipping a gin and tonic in a heavy scotch glass on the flybrige even though I haven't bothered to clear the cobwebs yet? It's always a dilemma, that's the problem.
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Old 03-09-2012, 14:18   #666
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Re: The Philosophy Behind Sailing Simply and Cheaply

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The problem is that there's always tension between the extremes, there's always a debate over the choices, opportunity costs to use a econ term -- as we can see from the 45 pages of this thread. When I'm at the office there's always more to do, one more hill to climb, one more project to finish. When I'm on the boat sipping coffee at dawn, the office is the last place I want to be. Do we buy the dream boat next season or refi the mortgage to a better rate and finally install that home theater room? Simplicity or complexity. Small footprint, big footprint. Laying in a hammock, or buffing the hull? Which do I like better, a bright-polished stainless anchor that throws twinkles onto the water splashing under the bow pulpit, or sipping a gin and tonic in a heavy scotch glass on the flybrige even though I haven't bothered to clear the cobwebs yet? It's always a dilemma, that's the problem.
Hmm, none of that sounds simple or cheap to me. If you're happy with the problem, and it sounds like you are, fine; otherwise, I'd try eliminating something instead of picking between more things like a new boat versus a TV room.
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Old 04-09-2012, 00:48   #667
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Re: The Philosophy Behind Sailing Simply and Cheaply

As an unreconstructed flower child I did the Thoreau thing forty years ago. Built a mudbrick house, not a log cabin, lived without grid power, grew my own veggies etc, etc.

But then I was reincarnated as a capitalist, ran my own company and built a reasonable nest egg but the call of the simple life was still strong in the veins so I retired early to spend the last few years bumming around Asia.

My last midlife crisis was so much fun I decided to have another and go on water.

I am not attracted to excessive effluence but I am too selfish to deny myself a reasonable level of comfort and simple luxuries like the latest electronic boy's toy and a pleasant bottle of plonk.

So my life aboard is one of a simple but comfortable existence without unnecessary consumption but a sustainable surplus.
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Old 04-09-2012, 06:57   #668
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Re: The Philosophy Behind Sailing Simply and Cheaply

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Hmm, ... instead of picking between more things like a new boat versus a TV room.
Hmm indeed: New boat ... TV room, new boat ... TV room.

As usual, I am on the leading edge here as my old boat has an area that I like to call a "TV room". In my quest to live simply/cheaply this area is also versatile enough to serve as my galley, master and commander's stateroom, "nav" station/officers' mess/computational center, head (enclosed by curtain), shower (ditto), engine room, tool crib, gun locker (albeit carefully concealed and labeled "stash"), tackle box, dog house, ship's sea chest, grog garage and plonk place, greenhouse for sprouts, herbs and ornamentals, and more!

Simple. Cheap.

Coming soon: airhead.
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:34   #669
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Re: The Philosophy Behind Sailing Simply and Cheaply

Just when I thought there was nothing that could be added to this thread...The last few posts have brought to mind the interesting conflict of trying to do more with less.
As most of you know, I reciently moved the boat to a new home. In Warrenton, Oregon the marina is not fancy, and the liveaboards there vary from large and nice to simple. One person there lives on a 23 ft and never goes out sailing. That is their total home, and they like it that way. They have no instruments, no inboard motor etc, etc. A very simple lifestyle. But since I want to punch through the Columbia bank about 4 times a year, I need radar, instruments, good strong sails etc. A increase in complexity for sure, but it allows me to navigate in a busy shipping channel with iffy weather and thick fog...
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Old 04-09-2012, 15:27   #670
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I'm sitting here in a remote corner of Lake Superior, with one-divit net access. We've been out for over three weeks now, and are slowly (and reluctantly) making the return journey back to urban spaces. Two more weeks and it's back to the rat race. As usual, we've seen only one dock the whole time out, and very few people -- no one these past two weeks. We have a hi-tech fiberglass boat with fancy things like Dacron sails and iPads. We share our anchorages with caribou, moose and bear, not to mention loons, eagles and all manner of other fish and foul (and some of the fish have been quite tasty). There's a beer waiting for me in the galley, and for this trip it is cold!

Simplicity? I dunno. But I sure don't want to go back.
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Old 04-09-2012, 16:37   #671
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Thats assuming you have the ability to 'raise your net worth'. Most normal westerners are stuck in the work/spend/work/spend cycle. It would require many years of saving, AKA retirement, to do it 'right'. The only way out is to change your philosophy and break that cycle immediately.
So, so very true. I was on the corporate rat ladder from 1996 to 2001 working for investment banking companies. I was getting 30% more take home pay virtually every year. I was travelling for work all the time, and had lots of awesome shiny things that only my roomate got to use because I was gone for five weeks out of every six, and the weeks I was home I'd often be leaving at 5:30am and getting home at 10:00pm. I had no money left over at the end of a paycheque despite having the company cover most of my meals while I was travelling.

In 2001 - I got out of the rat race. Started a home based business. No more travel expenses, no more restaurant meals, no more buying coffee from a coffee shop. No leaving the house, actually, and if I had to go to do work for a client I charged them an extra $25 for a trip charge.

I ate healthier, cooked my own soups and meals from scratch, learned to truly enjoy my yard and my life. It was amazing how little money I needed to make to putter along and how enjoyable my life had become. Despite making less than half of my wage when I had left, my quality of life was vastly improved. I had time for hobbies, special projects. I usually had enough money to do the things I wanted to do, I had time off to do them whenever I wanted.

Unfortunately the 2008 recession wiped out the business. I could live on little, but not on nothing at all. However the experience has certainly permanently changed my POV. Now I'm back in investment banking, ironically back in the very same building I used to work in only 2 floors higher.

I see the other guys at the office always wanting to get that new shiny car, to upgrade their home, to get memberships at exclusive social clubs, eating out at five star restaurants, fancy watches, four hundred dollar sunglasses, Hugo Boss T-shirts.

Yet I still have a truck that hasnt been on the road in 3 years, I shop at Value Villiage (used 2nd hand store). I take lunch to work or eat on the cheap. My rental expense is near zero as I rent unused rooms in my house to tenants. I take transit everywhere.

I am amazed at how much money I used to just waste on crap that just became obsolete a few years later (shiny Sony Clie Palm Pilot for $500? How about an HP iPaq running Windows for $1000, how useful are these things today?). My colleagues wonder how I can stand it (not driving? renting rooms in your house to strangers? Dont you ever go out to the bar?).

If I still lived the way I used to live, I would never have been able to afford a sailboat in my lifetime. Now, I'm smart enough to know that the sailboat actually SAVES me money. I dont go on vacations on airplanes, buses or trains. I dont have to eat out when I'm on vacation or for a weekend on the boat. I go on a lot more vacations now and I spend a whole lot less. I got an older, simple boat with basics, I can maintain most of it with a basic tool box.

Its amazing how we get caught up in the "thing of the moment" and blow wads of cash on crap that six or ten months later, we wouldnt even know if we'd had it stolen.
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Old 04-09-2012, 17:22   #672
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Re: The Philosophy Behind Sailing Simply and Cheaply

Over the last 30 years I've never failed to get a kick out of sailing under a harbour bridge (Auckland and Sydney) in rush hour and thinking "i cant believe i'm getting away with this". The feeling of living in a busy city but having stepped sideways into a completely different dimension is great. While I'm on the boat my existence is organic, i'm at the mercy of the weather, i have to take notice of the moon and tides and the mood of the sea, i never get to forget that the sea can swallow me at any moment, that my existence is a meaningless speck that could be washed away at any moment, something that its very easy to forget ashore. Its the last place we get to experience life in the raw folks. And theres no better meditation than watching a well filled sail and a good cutting wake through a long south pacific swell.
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Old 04-09-2012, 17:27   #673
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Re: The Philosophy Behind Sailing Simply and Cheaply

GREAT pOST! tHANKS
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Old 04-09-2012, 20:01   #674
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Re: The Philosophy Behind Sailing Simply and Cheaply

The great explorers girdled the earth with minimal equipment, even before reliable ways had been devised of determining latitude. The invention of the sextant and the accurate chronometer - along with compass, somewhat accurate charts, log line, and a sounding lead - were all it took to sail the seas. No electric gadgets then. Certainly no GPS.

I taught myself celestial navigation with Mary Blewitt's great little book "Celestial Navigation for Yachtsmen" which is available used for less that $10. I cruised happily using the same tools as the old voyagers (add a depth sounder and speedo to the lead and log line that I still kept as back-ups -and a VHF) and felt a wonderful sense of self-sufficiency. GPS hadn't yet been invented, and I couldn't afford a LORAN. I did have an RDF.

My point (in support of the general tenor of this thread) is that it is possible to get along just fine with a lot less in the way of stuff than one might think.
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Old 04-09-2012, 20:32   #675
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Simple living,....i think that i must have a doctorate in that by now.

Bought my boat for 10k, haven't spent 5k on it to get it into pristine tip top condition. So for about 15k not including my electronics i have new sails, new motor, new paint new everything actually, stainless fittings everywhere, all lines to cockpit, big solar installation, gas inside and out, nice targa, teak and silky oak trim everywhere, etc etc even new winches

But to do that, i have scrounged like a thirsty bloodhound, even managed to suck water out of some dried and shriveled stones and taught myself how to do everything myself.

Just about everything i use is recycled in some way, all the timber trim, floors, whatever used to be beds, window frames, cupboards etc, i just scrounged the tip and then buy em cheap and mill them into the shapes that i need.

My milling table is an old table that cost 5 buck with a $9 circular saw screwed underneath. haha a $14 table saw that acts a router bench too.

All my ground tackle i got for nothing by asking and being in the right place at the right time, which aint bad as i now have 4 anchors and 2 sets of chain for a total cost of $20

Same for the two furlers that will install at some point in time, there worth nothing second hand, and when someone is changing them its usually cause the bearings dead or the extrusions a bit bent.

But on a small boat, you end up with more than enough extrusion to see you good, and you buy a new bearing and install it yourself add a grease nipple to the bearing as you do it too.

Mind you you usually have to take it down for the old owner so that the rigger doesn't just snap it up for scrap.

Paint can be bought cheaply, and even if its epoxy two pack, you just have to figure out who is moving the most of it in your area and then haggle the best deal.

Stainless, haha, what a joke, with the cost of getting someone to do my stainless work it was cheaper to buy a good welder 2nd hand, grad a heap of scrap from the scrap merchants and teach myself, i now have handrails, bollards, targa, cleats, brackets here and there, swim ladders etc etc.

man i could go on and on, even my dunny is a second hand item, some nitwit couldn't figure out why it wasn't working and threw it away, i just fixed it and have a near new toilet. sounds gross, haha but im happy.

same for the motor for one of my fridges on the boat, had a small circuity issue, needed some love, i got it for nothing, spend 60 cents to get a part and now i have a great fridge.

i grow my own plants and veggies, brew my own beer, to live cheaply i do my own washing and enjoy it, whenever i feel like something special to cook i learn a new recipe.

Im some ways by living as i do i have an idyillc life as i dont seem to have all the crap hanging over me that most people seem to have gathered.

Plus the biggest bonus is that as i dont spend much money and know how to live frugally i always seem to have coin in my pocket, what a bonus.

end of my rant,....

cheap boating it can be done, you just have to want to do it

Matthew
Hi Matthew,
My Dad was the Original Scrooge!,!! Not nasty, just very,very, VERY, frugal. That'll get you by.........
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