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Old 01-05-2012, 07:22   #616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conachair



That pretty much sums up exactly what it´s like to be alive, simple or otherwise.

Stuff happens.
Yes......... It's that quote from "Slaughter House Five."

Kurt V. survived the fire bombing of Dresdon as a POW housed in an abandoned slaughter house. Each day they would emerge to deal with the madness as forced labor. They were dealing with life on its simplest terms........ Pure survival as technology literally rained death and destruction.

Kurt V. was definitely a big thinker. After some of his experiences it's no wonder that he held some of the views that he did. I am no expert on his work. Just enjoyed the quote that you put up..........and it reminded me of that often quoted line in his book.

"And so it goes......."
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:21   #617
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

I found this quote, and the idea behind it, of value when philosophy'ing on MORALS of sailing simply and cheaply. I decided to share it because, to me, it somehow relates to one of the posts you will find higher up the thread.

Interestingly, this proposition comes from a French economist (sic!). If only all economists could exhibit SOME dose of revolutionary thinking. Liberté, égalité, fraternité. Enjoy:

" ...The connection between more and better has been broken; our needs for many products and services are already more than adequately met, and many of our as-yet-unsatisfied needs will be met not by producing more, but by producing differently, producing other things, or even producing less. This is especially true as regards our needs for air, water, space, silence, beauty, time and human contact...

From the point where it takes only 1,000 hours per year or 20,000 to 30,000 hours per lifetime to create an amount of wealth equal to or greater than the amount we create at the present time in 1,600 hours per year or 40,000 to 50,000 hours in a working life, we must all be able to obtain a real income equal to or higher than our current salaries in exchange for a greatly reduced quantity of work...

Neither is it true any longer that the more each individual works, the better off everyone will be. The present crisis has stimulated technological change of an unprecedented scale and speed: 'the micro-chip revolution'. The object and indeed the effect of this revolution has been to make rapidly increasing savings in labour, in the industrial, administrative and service sectors. Increasing production is secured in these sectors by decreasing amounts of labour. As a result, the social process of production no longer needs everyone to work in it on a full-time basis. The work ethic ceases to be viable in such a situation and work-based society is thrown into crisis...

—André Gorz, Critique of economic Reason, Gallile, 1989

..."

Source: Basic income guarantee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Love & flowers, free tradewinds & brainz,
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Old 01-05-2012, 11:41   #618
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Minimalism has been argued to be qualitative which is fine, in that what is minimally acceptable to one is deprivation to another and therefore a matter of freedom of choice. However, I would argue “ethically” for less consumption. For example, it is everyday knowledge that “life” for the most part does not live throughout the planet but is supported within a narrow band of biology ringing earth’s surface, likened to a film of water around a basketball. The more we consume, the more we negatively impact this small biospheric bubble all living things depend on. Human humbleness before this reality is largely absent but emerging (time permitting).
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Old 01-05-2012, 13:27   #619
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

One of the main revelations of my past post (experience) is that sophisticated technology allows one the illusion of being a better sailor because he is able to do more. When that technology is stripped away we find out who we really are.
Basic sailing skills rule.
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Old 01-05-2012, 14:46   #620
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
One of the main revelations of my past post (experience) is that sophisticated technology allows one the illusion of being a better sailor because he is able to do more. When that technology is stripped away we find out who we really are.
Basic sailing skills rule.
Yes, all technology -- all tools -- allow us to climb higher than the naked apes we are. The challenge, and the point you're making, is to be aware of how fragile the technological foundation is that we stand on. When it all goes poof, what have you got? The knowledge and skill that lives between your ears, and the strength and dexterity of your body.

But of course, we are surrounded by technology. A boat -- even the "simplest" boat -- is a technological wonder. We all put our faith in some level of technology. So the real trick is understanding how stable the foundation is on which we stand. And just like in climbing, never rely on just one hold.
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Old 01-05-2012, 15:59   #621
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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(...) And just like in climbing, never rely on just one hold.
Doh!
This can be extended both ways: it all depends on the qualities - of the hold, and of the holding hand!

Have you ever seen a bird with a parachute?

Then again, to some, the options are to survive or to survive ;-) - like people who will pray AND then buy a liferaft AND then buy an insurance... (whoa! triple security! just in case the prayers are not enough and the liferaft does not inflate).

To others: the options are SIMPLER (vide this thread's title): to survive or to survive not.

b.
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Old 01-05-2012, 18:22   #622
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
One of the main revelations of my past post (experience) is that sophisticated technology allows one the illusion of being a better sailor because he is able to do more. When that technology is stripped away we find out who we really are.
Basic sailing skills rule.

I think if you can do more you are a better sailor. I guess I'd have that nav stuff if I could afford it. I think the distinction is if the power goes off, can you still get where you're going?

And I think I can get by without a forward-looking sonar. Is it just me?
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Old 01-05-2012, 18:29   #623
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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(...) I think the distinction is if the power goes off, can you still get where you're going? (...)
Does it not depend on where you are going?

I believe 90% of cruisers would not go to 90% of destinations if the power went off.

Which would actually suit me!

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Old 01-05-2012, 18:40   #624
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Does it not depend on where you are going?

I believe 90% of cruisers would not go to 90% of destinations if the power went off.

Which would actually suit me!

b.

Which means 90% of cruisers are "sailing above their means".
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Old 01-05-2012, 18:55   #625
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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... I believe 90% of cruisers would not go to 90% of destinations if the power went off.

Which would actually suit me!

b.

No question. Think what that would do to boat resales.

And anchoring wherever you choose.

And the lobster population.
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Old 01-05-2012, 19:00   #626
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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No question. Think what that would do to boat resales.

And anchoring wherever you choose.

And the lobster population.
You mean the RUM population?
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Old 01-05-2012, 19:08   #627
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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You mean the RUM population?
Yeah. That too. With no demand, the already low price would drop.
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Old 01-05-2012, 19:59   #628
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Was I sailing above my means? (my abilities) Believe me, I had this conversation with myself as I hove too and reassessed the constantly changing situation. But when my crew became deathly ill and my engine stopped functioning (secondary to #1 and a mistake he made while ill) we were able to get in safely and get him to a doctor.
Now I believe in this philosophy- as stated by the last so many posts. But I think the sailors that would attempt Cape Flattery or the Columbia Bank without an Auxiliary are very few, and those without local knowledge of the tides and weather even fewer. I did so last Saturday, and it sucked.
I am going to keep my little diesel and my chartplotter.
I am going to keep my backup VHF.
And I long I am am sailing in the Pacific in the NW, I am going to keep my 40ty footer.
All the above are complexities, perhaps all allowing me to sail beyond my means. But I'm not dropping bodies in the water because they could not get care in time. It is this shortening of critical time in an emergent situation that has become important to me. If it is just me healthy and cold, I can heave too until the situation gets better.
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Old 01-05-2012, 21:50   #629
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

The same could be said for the Malacca straits.
Few would consider it "possible" without an engine...

(I know some will argue this guy is not a "proper" skipper.... but....)



Quote: "Nobody ever believe that"
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Old 01-05-2012, 22:06   #630
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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And I long I am am sailing in the Pacific in the NW, I am going to keep my 40ty footer.
.
BINGO!!!

As a result of this dialectic, you have become content with what you have. It's a marvelous boat, yet some would be impressed were you to cruise something smaller, and others would be impressed were you to cruise something larger.

You ignore both groups, and focus on the boat you already have.

Contentment.

Voluntary simplicity is not about having less so much as it's about wanting less. At the beginning of the thread, you wanted something you didn't have. Now, you want for nothing in a boat. The boat you already have is the boat you want to have.

If there is nothing more complex than desire, there there is nothing more simple than contentment.
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