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Old 27-04-2012, 21:24   #601
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

After several days of self-imposed penance for the harshness and ill-wording of my previous post on this thread, I must say that I am looking at some of the posts here with new eyes. To CallMeCrazy, I know what you mean. There is a sort of "purity" to not being owned by your stuff. I lived aboard in my 30s and would often comment how much I enjoyed the lack of materialism. I would remark how, if I wanted a new lamp I would have to throw away the lamp I had because there was only room for one aboard. Of course, my simple living was also a matter of budget at that time. Now, pushing 60 (hard), I have been inordinately overpaid for what I do for many years and have traded a simple life for an "easy" life. So now, I am probably more in line with Ex-Calif's thinking. ie. I earned it, I may as well enjoy it. However, I do still hold true to many of my prior "simple" ways. I have avoided the constant desire for "more" in many areas which is very difficult in Los Angeles. I have the same house after 23 years, the same boat after 12 and generally follow the philosophy that it is better to want what you have than to have what you want. I also hate debt. It is one thing for me to drop 5 grand on an 80" TV, but quite another to go into debt for an 80" TV. That is how your stuff gets to own you. I have enjoyed this thread because it has made me think, and I thank the participants for their views.

Mike
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Old 27-04-2012, 23:44   #602
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

I thought maybe it was time to revisit a portion of newt's post #1:

Quote:
What I am suggesting is there is a different and competing philosophy to the life of luxury and overindulgence. I think those that take the minimalist road are healthier, have more time to explore, and are happier. That does mean that you cannot have money. It just means that you choose not to spend it for things that consume your time, and ultimately your life.
So this thread is all about Sailing Simply, where it leads you, and why you do it. By definition- if it saves you time or money we want to hear about.
No idealism here just a very "realistic" look at what works for you.
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Old 28-04-2012, 03:33   #603
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Lets all get over ourselves and enjoy what we have...
I think that pretty much sums up the secret to being happy in life.

That and having "more" .

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(wow, I just read my drivel - gotta stop posting under the influence of coffee...)
I get that a lot . I blame da Gubberment .
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Old 28-04-2012, 08:49   #604
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post

1) It's amazing to me that people can be so closed minded.

2) Why is idealism such a terrible thing?

3) If some Euro collage grad with dreadlocks decides to backpack across South America, how is that a bad thing?
We are clearly on the same wavelength - the only missing thing being a ke(d)g(e) ;-) of good Austrian beer and sitting in the same cockpit talking the same things over and over.

My biased take:

Ad 1) What is amazing about people being closed minded? Know thyself. Yes, we are. Seeing this may be the first step to change for the better. Sure, it is bad if it is the ONLY step.

Ad 2) Idealism may be a terrible thing when it becomes detached from realism.

Ad 3) Who decided to back pack Latin America is in Latin America now, backpacking. Meanwhile, the Euro college grad is walking the docks in unrealistic clothes and talking nonsense to people who have actually been there done that. See my Ad 2 above.

I believe idealism is where one believes that reality results from what we have in our heads, NOT where one believes reality has nothing to do with what we have there.

Simplicity? Cheap?

Yes, one can. With both feet on the ground.

Love,
barnie
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Old 28-04-2012, 10:30   #605
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post

Lets all get over ourselves and enjoy what we have...
Good idea, but...

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”


kurt vonnegut

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Old 30-04-2012, 07:00   #606
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

I must say this thread has gone a lot of different directions while I have been out sailing. And this thread has helped me understand what I am doing while sailing, perhaps what I am seeking for. First I should say that I am not seeking the easy way. My sailing has been difficult, with solo passage making at night, and here in the PNW I have been plagued by frequent violent gales at all hours, often unannounced by our complex weather forecasting system. I have not been trying to enjoy my sailing, but rather transport a boat from one place to another (although I have enjoyed it). A few observations:
1. The most simple man is one without a boat.
2. We add complexity to our life when we think it will add quality. We may or may not be right. Adding a boat to my life differently gave me more experience, and I like to think enriched my life. A big boat? More complexity. A better experience? Perhaps a different experience.
3. Complex items on board- water makers, chart plotters etc allow us to be poorer sailors and get away with more audacious journeys. It took me a while to admit this to myself, but I do believe that it is true. Complex items however should not be confused with luxury items- items that tend to make a yacht a apartment. Case in point:
I left Bellingham after sunset the other day for Neah Bay (approximately 150 nm through islands, rocks and complex tides). No sailor in their right mind would have done this 50 years ago. Even in the darkest night (Overcast with freezing rain) I knew where I was in relation to the rocks and I had current information on the tides and rate of flow. For navigation I was totally dependent on a chart plotter. What would I have done without it? I would have only traveled during the day and taken twice as long, or even longer because I without an engine I would have not been able to power through the slack winds behind islands or a bit of adverse current here and there.

Did these things allow me to do more with less sailing ability- yes they did. But I found out that once they are gone, you feel incredibly lost out there. You grow dependent on these items to maintain you sailing level as it were. We had a medical emergency while sailing ( I had crew by this time) I lost my ability to power my boat while in the Pacific in a mild gale, and it has been once of the most traumatic experiences of my life. (getting back safely to harbor). I survived by adherence to the basics of sailing that we talk all the time on this site- sail the boat, notify others of your position and condition, and handling things as they come up (pay attention to the now and nothing else).

What was funny is that heaved too and trying to handle the situations out there, I never once thought about trying to simplify the boat. This whole discussion was from another planet....
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Old 30-04-2012, 17:04   #607
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

So much in that post Newt...

But one thing sticks out in my mind.
You said; you "grow dependent on these items to maintain your level of sailing".

I have to ask; Is it really "you're level of sailing" if, in-fact, the machinery and gadgets are the only thing that got you there? (and not saying that's a bad thing, just posing the question... and yes I know barni will show up and say that the boat itself is a complicated machine... blah!)

Not trying to knock your voyage Newt. Good on'ya for it Seriously. And I won't pursue any attempt to reiterate my previous attempts at reiterating my point

But, I will leave you guys with this vid in the hopes that showing "sailing simple" is much more affective than trying to explain it

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Old 30-04-2012, 17:18   #608
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
(...) and yes I know barni will show up and say that the boat itself is a complicated machine... blah!)
(...)
;-)

I have been honorably mentioned!

Flowers,
b.
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Old 30-04-2012, 17:26   #609
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Yes.

But, you see, guys & ladies: a boat is a complicated machine anyways!

How many of us sail like Yrvind?

Sven Yrvind - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Not too many really! Over six years or so, I met a handfull (not not quite full at all) of sailors that sailed truly simple boats.

When a boat gets beyond X feet, she gets complicated no matter what (or else - how do you control this HUGE genoa?). Simplicity may be gone, and cheap'icity will be gone for sure.

So it is either muscles and, potentially, small/simple boats or else we are far from simplicity before we even cast the lines.

Love,
b.
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Old 30-04-2012, 18:14   #610
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
But, I will leave you guys with this vid in the hopes that showing "sailing simple" is much more affective than trying to explain it
huh, how is tacking up a river got anything to do with "sailing simple". not to mention the 1000s of quids worth of video gear and then he gets into his car and drives to his house.... The guy does this for money

Dave
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Old 30-04-2012, 18:24   #611
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
huh, how is tacking up a river got anything to do with "sailing simple". not to mention the 1000s of quids worth of video gear and then he gets into his car and drives to his house.... The guy does this for money

Dave
He uses a $200 Sony Exacti and lives on the (18') boat for the better part of each of the 4 years he's been 'cruising'.

To answer you're question, 'how does tacking up a river...';
It doesn't.
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Old 30-04-2012, 18:31   #612
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by MikeinLA View Post
I have the same house after 23 years, the same boat after 12 and generally follow the philosophy that it is better to want what you have than to have what you want.
One of the key tenets of the voluntary simplicity movement is that it's more about wanting less than about having less.
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Old 01-05-2012, 00:37   #613
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as for me, I feel cruising on the cheap and minamalistic is not doing without the wonderful techno gadgets we have to make things easier. to me doing things the way you can to afford the lifestyle you want, me I want the ability to stay on my boat! i dont want to have to fly home to a job and save $$ so i can come back to my boat. for some they can have every luxury in the world and never have to take a break, with me it means rice and beans, catching fish, not going to the steak house. anchor instead of dock, watch dvd's instead of satellite tv. maybe I need to take a odd job or barter to
get that water maker. but I'm not going to do with out because It violates some law of I'm a simple man I only catch my water from the sky"
no, minimalist to me is doing what I have to or without some things to stay cruising all year.

I will say this is just a opinion coming from someone that's getting ready to make the jump to a full time cruiser, I'm happy to say I'm doing it instead of waiting for "the right time"
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:01   #614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by conachair

Good idea, but...

“Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly;
Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?'
Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land;
Man got to tell himself he understand.”

kurt vonnegut
"And so it goes........."
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Old 01-05-2012, 06:53   #615
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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"And so it goes........."


That pretty much sums up exactly what it´s like to be alive, simple or otherwise.

Stuff happens.
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