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Old 28-03-2012, 00:35   #46
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
...You err where you state that choice implies philosophy and you further claim to validate such statement with the fact that there is necessity (not philosophy) when there is no choice.

Actually, these two can be completely unrelated.

Only the choice (as opposed to any choice) driven by love, or search for, the truth can be attributed to philosophy.

I would also risk the notion that necessity does not have to exclude philosophy - for even in necessity we still have the choice - the most important one - to be, or not to be.

Correct me if I am wrong ;-)

Love,
b.

What I like about this discussion is that we all seem to agree with the intent but define it differently.

The bottom line is that if it works... then you are applying what is called a “Utilitarian Philosophy” …..it works for me and those around me... so don’t knock it”
……and isn’t that what happiness is all about?
Utilitarian Philosophy

You don’t have to be a minimalist, or simple and basic, you don’t need to feel you are going camping but you also “can’t have your steak and eat it to”… so that implies choices

“Choice” is one of those words that doesn’t really have a good synonym.
It is defined: the right, power, or opportunity to choose from a number of possibilities

All I am saying is that the happy sailor adjusts his sailing philosophy based on what are his limitations and personal preferences.

If He/She priorities so as to avoid making unrealistic choices….then I believe that decision is more one of utility than philosophy.

And I am happy with that.
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Old 28-03-2012, 05:08   #47
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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... It just means that you choose not to spend it for things that consume your time, and ultimately your life.
So this thread is all about Sailing Simply, where it leads you, and why you do it. By definition- if it saves you time or money we want to hear about. If it simplifies your life a lot, please share!
Interesting that most/many cruisers are consumed with the maintenance on their boats. I think it is a full time job for most regular cruisers. So to be truly free - need to get rid of the boat...
However, much of our work is preventative so as to reduce further work in the future.
I have recently installed Raymarine chart plotters at the new helm- expensive? yes - but will make my life easier than running 30 feet back and forwards to the nav station to take paper chart positions...I believe this will simplify my life - and make cruising safer. I do like gadgets. But, I have spent much time and money, during this 5 month refit, making a very complicated boat much simpler.
I believe I have made many things simpler, safer and more efficient...I ditched the ice-maker, washing-machine, microwave, sat-phone. Cut out "magic-legs" which are huge stainless steel legs that drop down thru the bow to embed in the bottom. Cut-out large self draining vents in the bow (intended to naturally ventilate the boat). Relocated the concealed reefing lines that were routed back to the cockpit (sheaves came loose and severed all lines) - installing reefing system at bottom of mast - simpler - less load - less rope.
Removed much wiring (hundreds of pounds). Relocated much bilge pump hose and wiring to centralize and reduce weight and increase efficiency...
My weight increase was in anchoring systems (still working on that). I mostly anchor out. Bigger and better anchors give me the flexibility to live free and simply. I mostly get closer to shore and row my 8' walker bay. But, have the go fast dinghy to explore and shop and travel -greater distances. All while anchored in secluded, remote locations...

My observation is that many poorer people in USA are less healthy than wealthier people - seems to be the opposite of the Asian way...
But, it is true that simpler and less gluttonous is far more healthy. We never go to restaurants. My daughters favorite food is home made chicken noodle soup...
But, I think everyone is "on their own edge". i.e they have the biggest boat they (think they) can afford...
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Old 28-03-2012, 07:25   #48
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Fish we eat fresh. Some fall on the deck overnight and if I fail to spot them then that's it and we have them for breakfast.

Sometimes there are too dew too bother, or they are to small. These I just hang in the rigging and eat them a couple days later - dry.

Sure thing, the ones I do spot (or more likely at night - hear) I let them go.

b.
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Old 28-03-2012, 07:46   #49
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

never mind..
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Old 28-03-2012, 07:48   #50
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

On the choice thing:

I do not see such an option in Western culture. It is all about choices here. Are there any free choices when we know that we have to make choices in the first place? Furthermore, am I free to chose my drink if the only drinks available are water and beer?

In the East, there is a promise of not having to chose. At least we know such a notion exists in their thinking. When one can either make choices or not make them, without having to choose between these two alternatives, perhaps then their choices (& non-choices) would be free.

And you know what Germans say: 'who has the choice, has the suffering'. I bet there is a grain of truth there too.

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Old 28-03-2012, 08:10   #51
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Sailing is a bit like camping out on a hike or long distance horseback trip--take what you need and leave the rest behind.
Newt's profile has him owning a Valiant 40... that is not what I would remotely call going simplistic or campting out.. YMMV
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Old 28-03-2012, 08:25   #52
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

But, bella, size really does not matter. A big boat can be simpler than a small one. It is all up to who and how sets her up.

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Old 28-03-2012, 10:10   #53
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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...even talking about a minimalistic approach while piloting a Santa Cruz 50, a contradiction if I ever saw one
Good point. I'm trying to come up with a reasoned reply...it somehow doesn't seem like a contradiction to me. Standby
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Old 28-03-2012, 10:19   #54
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Good point. I'm trying to come up with a reasoned reply...it somehow doesn't seem like a contradiction to me. Standby
How about "....simply a race boat fitted for cruising"

That way you can use the word "simply" and Bill Lee would be proud.
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Old 28-03-2012, 10:26   #55
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

a 40 ft boat CAN and IS an excellent medium for low budget cruising-- ye do not have to outgrow it, you do not have to find a replacement. a ketch is perfect, as it is split rigged and easier to handle than single masted sloops...i cannot see a santa cruz 50 as a low budget cruiser, however.....
we each have the CHOICE to sail in whatever manner we wish---sometimes we have a lower than approved of income, but that is our choice to cruise using that as our base.
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Old 28-03-2012, 10:48   #56
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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a 40 ft boat CAN and IS an excellent medium for low budget cruising-- ye do not have to outgrow it, you do not have to find a replacement. a ketch is perfect, as it is split rigged and easier to handle than single masted sloops...i cannot see a santa cruz 50 as a low budget cruiser, however.....
we each have the CHOICE to sail in whatever manner we wish---sometimes we have a lower than approved of income, but that is our choice to cruise using that as our base.
I just loved my Cal 40, and you can still find them fitted for cruising for less than $40K. And downwind, a very fast boat unless your in the company of a Santa Cruz 50.
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Old 28-03-2012, 11:06   #57
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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I just loved my Cal 40, and you can still find them fitted for cruising for less than $40K. And downwind, a very fast boat unless your in the company of a Santa Cruz 50.
My previous cruiser was a Cal 36 (Poor Man's Cal 40) so you can see the logic of my progression to the SC50. I had little choice.

I going to claim The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and Cheaply as mine even though by most measures she's neither. Visiting cruisers step aboard and say "Where is everything?" The only items allowed aboard are those related to sailing, keeping the beer cold, and entertaining a woman (for the short period I can keep her fooled).
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Old 28-03-2012, 11:14   #58
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

I would have to agree more with Barnekal than Pelagic.

There is always choice. Ultimately you are the sum of your lifes choices.
The poor person you may say runs on a budget because he has no choice, yet not all those born poor stay that way, because some choose to work thier way up. Some may choose to be poor because more money is not a priority, or because making money in a corrupt system may require them to abandon personal mores.

I am choosing to change from a high cost consumer lifestyle to a lower cost to allow me more time on the water. I could choose more work ro more education, and competition for a higher paying job to allow me to pay increasing higher cost of fuel on a boat that burns vast quantities of it.

But instead I have purchased a small sailboat with no engine, except a trolling motor, no fridge, portapotty, propane stove, and solar fans.

After spending almost $100,000 on a twin engine cruiser, I purchased a $500 sailboat I found moldering in someones backyard, (cost less than 1/2 tank of fuel for the cruiser). The effort of rebuilding it using only available materials, (less than $100 in parts), has provided a welcome break from reaching for the checkbook to solve problems.

And the cost of fuel is no longer a major factor in planning a trip.
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Old 28-03-2012, 11:15   #59
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

daddle, do you shower on deck with the sun bag like me? Or have you installed a "proper" shower below?
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Old 28-03-2012, 11:24   #60
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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daddle, do you shower on deck with the sun bag like me? Or have you installed a "proper" shower below?
Just a simple kitchen sink style squirter coiled up in a cockpit pocket. I'd use a sun bag if the climate so required. I want a footpump for the shower, but she came with a candy-a$$ pressure water pump, so until that wears out...
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