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Old 25-04-2012, 15:43   #556
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Since this thread has veered from Simple Sailing to Simple Living, I'd like to offer an opposing viewpoint. I would contend that this whole issue of "simplicity" sounds much more like an excuse to me and it also sounds very selfish. I have not read much (or anything) here about contribution to society or to others. Nothing about moving the ball forward or about productivity. Some of you may be leaving a small "footprint", but you are also leaving a small impression on the world. You have made your very presence on the Earth inconsequential and I find this to be very sad. I understand the lure and romance of simplicity, I've read Thoreau too. However, I believe that one can be a productive member of society while also avoiding selling one's soul to materialism. For my part, I work at a business which I fully enjoy. I owe nobody a penny and could quit at any time. I live simply compared to others with a similar income, but I do enjoy owning things that enrich the enjoyment of my life. I have started dozens of people in their own businesses so that they can provide for their families and my son will soon walk out of college with no student loans to repay. All this talk about pondering whether a particular tool is really needed for a particular job or whether you could preferably get by without it. Seriously? This is how you spend the time that God has granted you? Since Thoreau got this started, I will leave you with some Sir Walter Scott.....

"The wretch, concentred all in self,
Living, shall forfeit fair renown,
And, doubly dying, shall go down
To the vile dust, from whence he sprung,
Unwept, unhonour'd, and unsung."
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Old 25-04-2012, 16:05   #557
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I guess some of us find more value in debating a specific tool or philosophical ideas more than we find value in how we are perceived or in how we are remembered by our legacy. The only imprint I have any desire to leave on this world is in the minds of my children.
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Old 25-04-2012, 16:34   #558
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by MikeinLA View Post
(...) Seriously? This is how you spend the time that God has granted you?(...)
I am afraid you missed both your vocation and your forum.

If you want to live a productive (?) life and add (?) to societies then it is OK with me. But if you want to tell me that your God (?) is angry with me then I say your post is irrelevant to this thread.

I will stick with Thoreau at least for the reason that he was no Sir or anything like that.

b.
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Old 25-04-2012, 17:55   #559
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Ah tools, I try to look at tools to see how many different jobs a tool can be used for. To paraphrase Freud, sometimes a hammer is just a hammer and a meat tenderizer.

Living or sailing simply does not preclude productivity. Nothing wrong with having lots of toys either, I guess. But there are many ways to a successful fulfilling life. To each their own way. Yes, I have been guilty of being productive now and then. In my later years, I seek harmony in living and sailing simply with nature. Luckily its not a one size fits all type of world.
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Old 25-04-2012, 18:16   #560
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeinLA View Post
Since this thread has veered from Simple Sailing to Simple Living, I'd like to offer an opposing viewpoint. I would contend that this whole issue of "simplicity" sounds much more like an excuse to me and it also sounds very selfish. I have not read much (or anything) here about contribution to society or to others. Nothing about moving the ball forward or about productivity. Some of you may be leaving a small "footprint", but you are also leaving a small impression on the world. You have made your very presence on the Earth inconsequential and I find this to be very sad. I understand the lure and romance of simplicity, I've read Thoreau too. However, I believe that one can be a productive member of society while also avoiding selling one's soul to materialism. For my part, I work at a business which I fully enjoy. I owe nobody a penny and could quit at any time. I live simply compared to others with a similar income, but I do enjoy owning things that enrich the enjoyment of my life. I have started dozens of people in their own businesses so that they can provide for their families and my son will soon walk out of college with no student loans to repay. All this talk about pondering whether a particular tool is really needed for a particular job or whether you could preferably get by without it. Seriously? This is how you spend the time that God has granted you? Since Thoreau got this started, I will leave you with some Sir Walter Scott.....

"The wretch, concentred all in self,
Living, shall forfeit fair renown,
And, doubly dying, shall go down
To the vile dust, from whence he sprung,
Unwept, unhonour'd, and unsung."
Interesting post and definitely an "opposing view" as you say. Mostly I disagree, especially with the "God" part but that's my prejudice. My impression is that most folks here are living very productive lives and contributing to the advancement of society. Maybe not the way you are but then "different stokes for different folks". I'm not sure what's unproductive about trying to reduce our consumption of limited resources so that there's something left for the next generation? Is that not a worthy legacy? With that, I'll leave you with this quote:


Quote:
People take different roads seeking fulfillment and happiness. Just
because they're not on your road doesn't mean they've gotten lost.
...H. Jackson Brown, Jr.
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Old 25-04-2012, 18:19   #561
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.

So we're just using the phrase 'relative simplicity' to describe something other than actual simplicity (because simple is definitive and there is no such thing as relative simplicity! ). Something more akin to escaping the trappings of our complex and convoluted society. We have no desire to truly live simply, and even if we did, I doubt any of us would make very successful buddhist monks

...
I think we can no longer hold up the Buddhist Monk as the poster children of simplicity.

Google "monk with cell phone" - just saying is all....
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Old 25-04-2012, 18:36   #562
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

messing with the zen .............. zang ................... che .............. ol well

lets go sailing!
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Old 25-04-2012, 18:48   #563
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Not now that the hurricane season is near!

But it will pass, I will haul her out, fix her up and, all other things equal, make a little loop to the West Indies and (unfortunately) back!

1) to stay alive,
2) to fix the boat,
3) to have fun living.

Simplicity rulez.

b.
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Old 25-04-2012, 18:58   #564
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeinLA View Post
Since this thread has veered from Simple Sailing to Simple Living, I'd like to offer an opposing viewpoint. I would contend that this whole issue of "simplicity" sounds much more like an excuse to me and it also sounds very selfish. I have not read much (or anything) here about contribution to society or to others. Nothing about moving the ball forward or about productivity. Some of you may be leaving a small "footprint", but you are also leaving a small impression on the world. You have made your very presence on the Earth inconsequential and I find this to be very sad.
Good on you MikeinLA. People like you create civilizations, and help tear them down. As for me, I have no such ambition. My selfish goal is to move through this life with as light a touch as possible. I live to learn, to explore, and to share ideas with interesting people. To help where I can, and to avoid being too much of a pain in the butt.

My dearest hope is that I will move through this life without leaving any permanent trace of my passing. No edifices to my genius, no scars on the landscape, and no genes (at least the ones under my control).

As for the god thing -- I'm still waiting for it to drop in for a chat. I've been waiting a long time...
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Old 25-04-2012, 19:17   #565
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
messing with the zen .............. zang ................... che .............. ol well

lets go sailing!

Just let em go Don. I suspect we've got a few Philosophy majors here. May be the only time they get to put those degrees to use.


"When a monk asked, "What is the Tao?" Master Ummon replied, "Walk on."
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Old 25-04-2012, 20:36   #566
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

From now on, instead of saying I live a 'relatively simple' life, and sail a 'relatively simple' boat. I'll just say it's 'relatively complicated' instead
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Old 25-04-2012, 21:32   #567
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This thread really hits home. I want to move back aboard. The reason is simple, I want to simplify my life. Unfortunately for the last 20 years I have been exclusively a multi hull sailor. To get a cat or tri that can carry the loads I want off shore and have a good degree of performance and NOT be wood.
I am looking at 330-500k used. Let's say I have the means to do this. The thought of spending $500k to simplify seems really selfish and is troubling me in ways it never would have in my 30s.
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Old 25-04-2012, 23:14   #568
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

"As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler; solitude will not be solitude, poverty will not be poverty, nor weakness weakness."

Henry David Thoreau
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Old 26-04-2012, 00:45   #569
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by Flight Risk View Post
This thread really hits home. I want to move back aboard. The reason is simple, I want to simplify my life. Unfortunately for the last 20 years I have been exclusively a multi hull sailor. To get a cat or tri that can carry the loads I want off shore and have a good degree of performance and NOT be wood.
I am looking at 330-500k used. Let's say I have the means to do this. The thought of spending $500k to simplify seems really selfish and is troubling me in ways it never would have in my 30s.
Sounds like at lot of boat and a lot of "load" for someone wanting to simplify his life, but I guess you already realize that. Maybe time to reevaluate some of those "needs".
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Old 26-04-2012, 02:10   #570
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Originally Posted by callmecrazy
From now on, instead of saying I live a 'relatively simple' life, and sail a 'relatively simple' boat. I'll just say it's 'relatively complicated' instead
Brilliant. Love it.
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