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Old 23-04-2012, 19:28   #511
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
(...) Doesn't work at all, nobody should even try it (...)
You see: upwind, my boat does not need a windvane. Off the wind, the flogging of the jib would render me nuts - I am sailing 24/7 and most of the time one of us is trying to sleep.

But I do buy the idea of the poled out jib! I will try it out if only to have a back-up method when our expensive simplicity fails.

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Old 23-04-2012, 19:29   #512
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Simple is relative!. What country you live in and the social-economical state your in pretty much defines what simple means to each of us. Really any of CMC examples are simple or complex, just depends on your point of reference.

Everyones idea of whats simple will be a little different. Am I living simple, I think so, But to someone else I might be living extravagantly. Though if I limit the group to just north american sailors, then its easier to say yes I'm living simply with low cost, low carbon footprint, simple boat, etc. Not that I was aiming for low carbon foot print, it just sort of happened.

Someone else might have a 100 foot boat and consider them selfs living simply. They could be right too depending on their point of reference.

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Old 23-04-2012, 19:32   #513
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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(...) My problem is letting myself do nothing when I am there. Same with the beach, even sitting on an empty beach for 20 minutes is hard. It is something I have to work on.
Look up my re to 'control' earlier up the thread. You might find some coincidence ...

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Old 23-04-2012, 19:35   #514
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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I am trying to live a simpler life, but still have a high quality of life. If modern technology can be used correctly to make life better, I have no problem with it. For example, I pay $50 month for a cell phone to call people instead of writing letters and using a few dollars worth of stamps.

As for boat design, I would like the fridge over having to find ice and bring it back to the boat. An ice maker with a well insulated ice box might be the other option, then I could make some boat drinks... Rain catching would be a supplement or backup. You have to work to keep the surface clean that is catching the water as well. Paper charts might work if you aren't traveling far or to the same places year after year, but sorting through and storing a lot of charts has to take up some space and time.

And while I am the 9-5'er saving $thousands, I now appreciate the days when I can live out of my backpack in the backcountry of a national park. My problem is letting myself do nothing when I am there. Same with the beach, even sitting on an empty beach for 20 minutes is hard. It is something I have to work on.
my life was simple till i met my wife............................
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Old 23-04-2012, 19:42   #515
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Yes, I agree that whatever works for a person, whatever makes them happy, is all good.

I don't mean to say that the more simple someone lives, the better off they are compared to everyone else.

I just mean that there is a definitive measure of simplicity when it comes to material/physical things. It's not really relative... But, there is a major difference between the pursuit of a simpler life vs. a reduction of materials.
But I think it is relative. What we are talking about here, i.e. Westerns reducing their consumption and materiality is nothing compared to the simple life the average Thai villager lives. They have cars, TV, cellphones but after that it is vastly different from what you and I living on a boat experience even. Their simplicity is a lot different from our vision, but you have to see it to really understand. It's not a conscious decision so much on their part, it just is. IMHO
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Old 23-04-2012, 19:50   #516
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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my life was simple till i met my wife............................
You mean things weren't reduced to a simple ...."Yes, dear" or "No, dear" ?
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Old 23-04-2012, 19:55   #517
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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CMC, based on your simple is a state of mind definition which do you believe is more simple? Or should it matter since it's a state of mind and a person who lives simple & at peace can do so with a watermaker & radar just as easily as without?

Good question

I'd say that it's not a 'state of mind', as in, a 'single perspective'... It's more of an 'active process', that doesn't end with single solution. It's a collective of material solutions (in the direction of efficiency), over time, that were the result of a singular mindset

I'm not claiming to be some type of simplicity expert here. I just think there is a major point being left out of the conversation, and I'm trying to reconcile that....

I think people like Thoreau, or Slocum, or buddhist monks, or podank country folk, would all have something to say about a watermaker and radar.... And not because they are new-fangled machines, but because they go well beyond any standard of necessity. Simplicity is the pursuit of necessity.

Simplicity in logic, as pointed out in earlier posts, is the reduction of a method to it's most essential components. The equation still performs the required function but, it does so through the most basic (and elegant) form.

So try putting that in context with human behavior (please! because I'm having a difficult time with it!)
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Old 23-04-2012, 19:58   #518
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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You mean things weren't reduced to a simple ...."Yes, dear" or "No, dear" ?
i tried that but found she was a much better auto pilot than a bungy cord........now all i have to say is...."port a bit.....starbord...starbord
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Old 23-04-2012, 20:08   #519
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

I think....
While everyone is trying to say 'its relative', what I'm trying to say is, it's not relative because NONE OF US are living simply And we should just accept that and admit that we enjoy complex systems and approaches to life in general and forget this whole ideal of "cruising simply on a budget", because it's not possible.

It's not relative, it's a myth!
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Old 23-04-2012, 20:11   #520
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
I think....
While everyone is trying to say 'its relative', what I'm trying to say is, it's not relative because NONE OF US are living simply And we should just accept that and admit that we enjoy complex systems and approaches to life in general and forget this whole ideal of "cruising simply on a budget", because it's not possible.

It's not relative, it's a myth!
O.K., now I get it!
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Old 23-04-2012, 21:38   #521
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Yet I STILL sail and live simply and on a low budget.. Oh maybe not per a PNG lass. To live simpler then I am now, I would have to give up fire and or electricity and live in the woods. (That's so not going to happen) But then that gets actually more complex, hunting for grubs, skinning animals for clothing...etc.. Really not my cup O tea.

So living really simply can be complex too...
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Old 23-04-2012, 23:04   #522
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pirate Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

I prefer simple elegance on the ol' Blue Crab.
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Old 24-04-2012, 03:18   #523
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
I think....
While everyone is trying to say 'its relative', what I'm trying to say is, it's not relative because NONE OF US are living simply And we should just accept that and admit that we enjoy complex systems and approaches to life in general and forget this whole ideal of "cruising simply on a budget", because it's not possible.

It's not relative, it's a myth!
And...

"Yet I STILL sail and live simply and on a low budget.. Oh maybe not per a PNG lass. To live simpler then I am now, I would have to give up fire and or electricity and live in the woods. (That's so not going to happen) But then that gets actually more complex, hunting for grubs, skinning animals for clothing...etc.. Really not my cup O tea.

So living really simply can be complex too... "

Ahemmm....
this is all looking very familiar... slightly different words, but the point I was trying to make about a thousand posts ago...
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Old 24-04-2012, 06:50   #524
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Simplicity is by its nature unachievable unless it is relative. None of us would choose to embody the paleolithic lifestyle so we all make choices.

Simplicity is about minimizing the complexity of your life around the choices you have made, this is what makes it relative.

I think we can all agree that owning, maintaining and traveling with a sailboat is not simple. But this is our choice. Having a watermaker may be someone elses choice. Because one chooses something based on thier perceived need does not mean that they cant pursue simplicity inclusive to choices they have made.
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Old 24-04-2012, 07:26   #525
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Simplicity must be relative. Everything else is.

Things would not be relative if they were fixed. But neither our moods nor the seasons are!

Every time someone tells me there are some fixed values my brain blinks the red LED: "now they will tell you what these fixed values are and next they will expect you to respect their values". And pay the their taxes. ;-)

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