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Old 23-04-2012, 17:06   #496
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

I should clarify... The movie is not necessarily about 'simplicity', it's about reducing one's lifestyle. There are many people who 'reduce' their belongings and save money in the process, but they aren't really changing their lifestyle. They are not simplifying...
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Old 23-04-2012, 18:09   #497
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Hi,

I am new to this forum. I have the dream to buy a small sailing boat and circumnavigate. I know my questions may be silly but please bear with me and help. I am in the process of choosing the right equipment. I want it all to be simple and cheap as discussed in this thread. But now I have this dillema :

- I can buy a windvane at USD 5000,
- or I can buy an autopilot at USD 1000,

I am puzzled as I thought simplicity = cheap.

THX in advance of your replies. I hope I did not make myself a complete idiot.

b.
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Old 23-04-2012, 18:15   #498
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Hi,

I am new to this forum. I have the dream to buy a small sailing boat and circumnavigate. I know my questions may be silly but please bear with me and help. I am in the process of choosing the right equipment. I want it all to be simple and cheap as discussed in this thread. But now I have this dillema :

- I can buy a windvane at USD 5000,
- or I can buy an autopilot at USD 1000,

I am puzzled as I thought simplicity = cheap.

THX in advance of your replies. I hope I did not make myself a complete idiot.

b.

It would be simpler to use sheet to tiller steering, and practicing sail balance
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Old 23-04-2012, 18:21   #499
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Has anyone ever designed and built a boat around 'simplicity'? Instead of 'cheap' as in the title of this thread, I prefer rugged and very difficult to break or need repair. But, not an overly complicated design or an abundance of systems and equipment that needs power or can fail in harsh conditions.
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Old 23-04-2012, 18:31   #500
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by SunDevil View Post
Has anyone ever designed and built a boat around 'simplicity'? Instead of 'cheap' as in the title of this thread, I prefer rugged and very difficult to break or need repair. But, not an overly complicated design or an abundance of systems and equipment that needs power or can fail in harsh conditions.
Wharram catamarans come to mind. Or maybe a alu or steel hull mono that's not loaded up with systems and equipment, but you'd probably have to either build it yourself or buy something used and strip it out which would be a cheaper route I suspect. Of course the same could be done with a strong fiberglass hull. It's the systems that make them complicated, i.e. its us.
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Old 23-04-2012, 18:33   #501
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

I'm sure I'm beating a dead horse here, but I'll go ahead and do it anyway

The idea I'm trying to get across, is that 'simple' is not a material thing at all. It's a state of mind, a pursuit, a way of living your life, that somehow translates itself into the material process of building/maintaining systems.

The opposite is NOT true... Just because you reduce you're material systems, or spent less money, does not mean you are pursing a 'simpler lifestyle'.

There has to be a separation between material simplicity (reducing), and the 'pursuit' of simplicity, as a lifestyle choice.

Who is living more simply?
The guy in the 150sq ft. house in San Francisco. Who still shops at the standard grocery stores and works the same 9-5 job? Maybe he's even saving $thousands per year compared to his neighbors...
Or,
the guy who is living in a 500sq ft. cabin in the woods that he built himself. Hunting and growing his own foods. Burning wood for fuel and heat... No job.

What is the more simple meal?
Stopping at McDonalds and buying two double cheeseburgers for $2.
Or,
Cooking 2 chicken breasts and a handful of fresh green beans and carrots?

What is the more simple system?
The $100 electric fresh water pump that uses 6amps per hour provided by a completely separate 12v electrical system.
Or,
The $100 foot pump?

What is the more simple boat?
The 30 footer with a Fridge, Radar, Watermaker, Plotter, Autopilot, electric toilet with macerator, SSB, Satphone, etc.. etc..
Or,
The 40 footer with a well insulated ice box, good watch keeping, rain catchment, paper charts, windvane, manual toilet, vhf...?
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Old 23-04-2012, 18:41   #502
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
It would be simpler to use sheet to tiller steering, and practicing sail balance
Yes it would be DEAD simple as it would not work.

Been there done that. Forget it. If it worked, nobody would be using them windvanes.

b.
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Old 23-04-2012, 18:43   #503
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

I don't know CMC I think it depends of what you the individual wants to accomplish by making things for you simpler. If in your mind your life is now simpler and you are satisfied with your results/goal then it's working for you. What I'm saying is maybe for someone the answer is junk food.
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Old 23-04-2012, 18:43   #504
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

The person in the 30 footer with all the bells and whistles, might "feel" like they are living simply when they compare it to their ex-suburban 2000sq. ft. house and their 30 year career that they've retired from.
But are they really keeping their boat simple? Did they really change their lifestyle? OR did they just find a way to fit their lifestyle into a 30 foot space?
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Old 23-04-2012, 18:48   #505
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by Doodles View Post
I don't know CMC I think it depends of what you the individual wants to accomplish by making things for you simpler. If in your mind your life is now simpler and you are satisfied with your results/goal then it's working for you. What I'm saying is maybe for someone the answer is junk food.
Yes, I agree that whatever works for a person, whatever makes them happy, is all good.

I don't mean to say that the more simple someone lives, the better off they are compared to everyone else.

I just mean that there is a definitive measure of simplicity when it comes to material/physical things. It's not really relative... But, there is a major difference between the pursuit of a simpler life vs. a reduction of materials.
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Old 23-04-2012, 18:53   #506
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Yes it would be DEAD simple as it would not work.

Been there done that. Forget it. If it worked, nobody would be using them windvanes.

b.
Right...
Doesn't work at all, nobody should even try it Especially on a fin keel/spade rudder boat where tracking is precarious...

(edited for better link)
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Old 23-04-2012, 19:09   #507
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by SunDevil View Post
Has anyone ever designed and built a boat around 'simplicity'?(...)
How about an Opti or a Laser?

b.
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Old 23-04-2012, 19:10   #508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecrazy
I'm sure I'm beating a dead horse here, but I'll go ahead and do it anyway

The idea I'm trying to get across, is that 'simple' is not a material thing at all. It's a state of mind, a pursuit, a way of living your life, that somehow translates itself into the material process of building/maintaining systems.

The opposite is NOT true... Just because you reduce you're material systems, or spent less money, does not mean you are pursing a 'simpler lifestyle'.

There has to be a separation between material simplicity (reducing), and the 'pursuit' of simplicity, as a lifestyle choice.

Who is living more simply?
The guy in the 150sq ft. house in San Francisco. Who still shops at the standard grocery stores and works the same 9-5 job? Maybe he's even saving $thousands per year compared to his neighbors...
Or,
the guy who is living in a 500sq ft. cabin in the woods that he built himself. Hunting and growing his own foods. Burning wood for fuel and heat... No job.

What is the more simple meal?
Stopping at McDonalds and buying two double cheeseburgers for $2.
Or,
Cooking 2 chicken breasts and a handful of fresh green beans and carrots?

What is the more simple system?
The $100 electric fresh water pump that uses 6amps per hour provided by a completely separate 12v electrical system.
Or,
The $100 foot pump?

What is the more simple boat?
The 30 footer with a Fridge, Radar, Watermaker, Plotter, Autopilot, electric toilet with macerator, SSB, Satphone, etc.. etc..
Or,
The 40 footer with a well insulated ice box, good watch keeping, rain catchment, paper charts, windvane, manual toilet, vhf...?
CMC, based on your simple is a state of mind definition which do you believe is more simple? Or should it matter since it's a state of mind and a person who lives simple & at peace can do so with a watermaker & radar just as easily as without?
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Old 23-04-2012, 19:20   #509
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
Right...
Doesn't work at all, nobody should even try it Especially on a fin keel/spade rudder boat where tracking is precarious...

(edited for better link)
i think you may be in for a lot of hand steering,unless you choose to sail to windward all the time,where a bungy will work fine.
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Old 23-04-2012, 19:24   #510
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
I'm sure I'm beating a dead horse here, but I'll go ahead and do it anyway

The idea I'm trying to get across, is that 'simple' is not a material thing at all. It's a state of mind, a pursuit, a way of living your life, that somehow translates itself into the material process of building/maintaining systems.

The opposite is NOT true... Just because you reduce you're material systems, or spent less money, does not mean you are pursing a 'simpler lifestyle'.

There has to be a separation between material simplicity (reducing), and the 'pursuit' of simplicity, as a lifestyle choice.

Who is living more simply?
The guy in the 150sq ft. house in San Francisco. Who still shops at the standard grocery stores and works the same 9-5 job? Maybe he's even saving $thousands per year compared to his neighbors...
Or,
the guy who is living in a 500sq ft. cabin in the woods that he built himself. Hunting and growing his own foods. Burning wood for fuel and heat... No job.

What is the more simple system?
The $100 electric fresh water pump that uses 6amps per hour provided by a completely separate 12v electrical system.
Or,
The $100 foot pump?

What is the more simple boat?
The 30 footer with a Fridge, Radar, Watermaker, Plotter, Autopilot, electric toilet with macerator, SSB, Satphone, etc.. etc..
Or,
The 40 footer with a well insulated ice box, good watch keeping, rain catchment, paper charts, windvane, manual toilet, vhf...?

I am trying to live a simpler life, but still have a high quality of life. If modern technology can be used correctly to make life better, I have no problem with it. For example, I pay $50 month for a cell phone to call people instead of writing letters and using a few dollars worth of stamps.

As for boat design, I would like the fridge over having to find ice and bring it back to the boat. An ice maker with a well insulated ice box might be the other option, then I could make some boat drinks... Rain catching would be a supplement or backup. You have to work to keep the surface clean that is catching the water as well. Paper charts might work if you aren't traveling far or to the same places year after year, but sorting through and storing a lot of charts has to take up some space and time.

And while I am the 9-5'er saving $thousands, I now appreciate the days when I can live out of my backpack in the backcountry of a national park. My problem is letting myself do nothing when I am there. Same with the beach, even sitting on an empty beach for 20 minutes is hard. It is something I have to work on.
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