Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-04-2012, 17:51   #481
Registered User
 
Blue Crab's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hurricane Highway
Boat: Cal 29
Posts: 3,883
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by conachair View Post
I would say most simpler cruising boats became that way as the cruisers got fed up fixing the bits that broke a lot but kept the bits that didnīt. Not any deep philosphical thought out plan. Just a tendancy towards putting up with a few less toys because itīs easier doing without than it is fixing them. Again.
Yep.



And Vic, I too disagree on the control freak thing. The simpler the boat the more maņanaes good enuf for me. I think I mean the control freaks aren't likely to be long-term cruisers.
__________________

__________________
Blue Crab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2012, 18:06   #482
Registered User
 
callmecrazy's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Boat: Tartan 30
Posts: 1,548
Images: 1
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

I think there's a dichotomy in this thread between people who seek a simpler lifestyle vs. people who seek a simpler boat (and a secondary contrast of people who don't really seek anything at all).

It's my opinion that when seeking a simpler lifestyle, a simple boat will just be an automatic part of the package. Its just a natural progression type of thing...

But for people who want a simpler boat, but don't desire (or understand) a simpler life, are going to always struggle with (or deny) the whole simple boat thing...
__________________

__________________
My Blog
callmecrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2012, 18:12   #483
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,895
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond View Post
"I think, therefore I am."... René Descartes.
How do you know it is you who is doing the thinking?.... Bertram Russell

Sorry, couldn’t resist...
__________________
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2012, 19:54   #484
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 4,038
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
I think there's a dichotomy in this thread between people who seek a simpler lifestyle vs. people who seek a simpler boat (and a secondary contrast of people who don't really seek anything at all).

It's my opinion that when seeking a simpler lifestyle, a simple boat will just be an automatic part of the package. Its just a natural progression type of thing...

But for people who want a simpler boat, but don't desire (or understand) a simpler life, are going to always struggle with (or deny) the whole simple boat thing...
Exactly .

A simple boat is a consequence of how I live. It's not an end. It just is. If one is pursuing a simple boat as goal in itself, then I suspect that person will be looking at it as a set of compromises, trading comfort and luxury for simpler and cheaper. For me, it just is.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-04-2012, 20:14   #485
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,895
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Exactly .

A simple boat is a consequence of how I live. It's not an end. It just is. If one is pursuing a simple boat as goal in itself, then I suspect that person will be looking at it as a set of compromises, trading comfort and luxury for simpler and cheaper. For me, it just is.
I agree….. but perhaps it is also a matter of perspective based on what you can afford to manage.

From the guy on the beach, to the simple boat to something with more manageable challenges.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	perspective 1.jpg
Views:	85
Size:	303.4 KB
ID:	40272   Click image for larger version

Name:	perspective 2.jpg
Views:	90
Size:	223.3 KB
ID:	40273  

__________________
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2012, 02:17   #486
Registered User
 
VirtualVagabond's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Boat: CT 54... for our sins!
Posts: 2,084
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
How do you know it is you who is doing the thinking?.... Bertram Russell

Sorry, couldn’t resist...
I don't, but as long as I'm happy thinking I'm the one doing the thinking...

You're a funny man Pelagic.
__________________
One must live the way one thinks, or end up thinking the way one lives - Paul Bourget

www.windwanderer.weebly.com
VirtualVagabond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2012, 02:19   #487
Registered User
 
VirtualVagabond's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Boat: CT 54... for our sins!
Posts: 2,084
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
I agree….. but perhaps it is also a matter of perspective based on what you can afford to manage.

From the guy on the beach, to the simple boat to something with more manageable challenges.
...and I like your idea of simple, manageable challenges
__________________
One must live the way one thinks, or end up thinking the way one lives - Paul Bourget

www.windwanderer.weebly.com
VirtualVagabond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2012, 02:22   #488
Registered User
 
VirtualVagabond's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Boat: CT 54... for our sins!
Posts: 2,084
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
I think there's a dichotomy in this thread between people who seek a simpler lifestyle vs. people who seek a simpler boat (and a secondary contrast of people who don't really seek anything at all).

It's my opinion that when seeking a simpler lifestyle, a simple boat will just be an automatic part of the package. Its just a natural progression type of thing...

But for people who want a simpler boat, but don't desire (or understand) a simpler life, are going to always struggle with (or deny) the whole simple boat thing...
I think you've nailed it...
__________________
One must live the way one thinks, or end up thinking the way one lives - Paul Bourget

www.windwanderer.weebly.com
VirtualVagabond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2012, 02:37   #489
Registered User
 
VirtualVagabond's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Boat: CT 54... for our sins!
Posts: 2,084
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Crab View Post
And Vic, I too disagree on the control freak thing. The simpler the boat the more maņanaes good enuf for me. I think I mean the control freaks aren't likely to be long-term cruisers.
I think the 'control freak' terminology may have given the impression of table pounding boardroom meetings...

I had a much more passive picture in mind, along the lines of "I can do everything that needs to be done myself, therefore I am in control."
Most cruisers like to be quietly in control of their world. It's a big motivator for going cruising in the first place.
__________________
One must live the way one thinks, or end up thinking the way one lives - Paul Bourget

www.windwanderer.weebly.com
VirtualVagabond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2012, 07:33   #490
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
I think there's a dichotomy in this thread between people who seek a simpler lifestyle vs. people who seek a simpler boat (and a secondary contrast of people who don't really seek anything at all).(...)
OK. And would you think this dichotomy may be, like beauty, in the viewer's eye?

Maybe a simple boat will entail simplifying one's lifestyle. Maybe a simple lifestyle will entail simplifying the boat.

I bet at whichever end one starts, if they get a kick from simplicity, that's where they are bound.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2012, 07:56   #491
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond View Post
(...) I had a much more passive picture in mind, along the lines of "I can do everything that needs to be done myself, therefore I am in control."

Most cruisers like to be quietly in control of their world. It's a big motivator for going cruising in the first place.
Yes/No.

Most cruisers do. It is a motivator. But how efficient a tool is it?

And is it possible that we live with an ILLUSION of control? I mean - the world we live in is very finely regulated by the states, the schools, the Colregs, the churches and the Defender stock prices. As long as we are within such a regulated world, it is easy to have the illusion of control. (Especially if we are willing to act in line with all the fine regulations).

But there are not many rules, nor cheat-sheets out there in the open water.

(Well, OK, now there are: the insurance, the liferaft, the EPIRB, the HAM, the DSC, the GPS, the Coast Guard...). And now guess why a shore-side control-freak will want them all!

But one must be able to let go if they are to cruise in simplicity.

When we are maybe 1 day out into a crossing I look at things and say to myself fcuk now there is very little I can control. I actually like this feeling but I know some people freak out. Many join rallies to avoid the boredom (???) of long ocean passages. Others will claim a day on a passage is indeed a day full of hard work. There are countless ways in which the mind will keep ITSELF busy and 'in control'.

So. Control. Yes.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2012, 09:23   #492
Registered User
 
mbianka's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,125
Images: 1
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by callmecrazy View Post
I think you're confusing simple with EASY.
And there is a big difference between keeping things simple and not being able to afford things (because there is the 'budget' clause in this thread). I think people that jerry jug water and rub sticks together, do it only because they can't afford it, not because they think it's simpler...

A water tank, with a straight run of hose to a foot pump is very simple. Yet delivers water efficiently and effectively.

People on land have no idea how much water they are using and wasting. In their mind, They turn the magic knob and water comes from some everlasting source. Same thing with the electricity or gas they use. It's the norm because people are ignorant and they follow the philosophy of "just buy more". Which is NOT simple.

On a boat, when you put the systems together yourself, and you fill the tanks yourself. There's no question where the water comes from or how much you're using. And if you have a simple system, when there is a problem with it, there will be no question where the problem is and how to fix it.

Hot water from a tap sounds simple. But you have to generate the energy to run it, run all the extra plumbing, keep it accessible, and when/if it breaks, be able to repair it or purchase a new one.

A manual pump just needs a bit of maintenance and it will last virtually forever. Power is generated by hand (or foot), so the source is literally limitless, and it saves a ridiculous amount of water. Which is important when all you have is a 40 gallon tank...

I replaced the electric water pump on this boat when I got it. Now I'm switching to a foot pump by choice because I want my water to keep working if the other complicated system (electrical) has any issues. And I don't want to spend $200 if/when it breaks...
Interesting point which got me thinking. My boat has both an electric water pump and foot pumps at the sinks. It also has a Paloma on demand hot water system providing "unlimited" hot water. Yet most of my showers are in the cockpit using solar heated water from a five gallon bucket. Likewise when I'm using the sinks I use the foot pumps and not the electric pressurized water pump. I have a choice of systems I could use yet I just seem to gravitate to using the simpler solution and technology without even thinking about it.
__________________
Capt. Mike
mbianka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2012, 09:28   #493
Registered User
 
svHannabel's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Great Lakes
Boat: Catalina 34
Posts: 253
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

I can't state my philosophy behind sailing any more simply than I did here: Why I Sail
__________________
SailFarLiveFree.com
svHannabel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2012, 09:43   #494
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Re the USD 200 or so splashed when the electric water pump breaks.

Have a good look at prices of foot pumps, they can give you a little shocker too.

And if the tank is below the tap then you get stuck whichever system you use when it breaks.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-04-2012, 17:02   #495
Registered User
 
callmecrazy's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Boat: Tartan 30
Posts: 1,548
Images: 1
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

I think everyone reading this thread should watch this movie.



I see that the question at hand is; "Is simplicity relative"?

I personally don't think it is. There is no question in my mind that not having something is simpler than having it. It's pretty black & white....

But there is an aspect of relative simplicity when you compare it to various ideals... I mean, if a suburbanite sells their house for a 40 foot sailboat, they will "feel" like they are living simply. But there's no question that living in an RV is not 'simple' when compared to living out of backpack.

It's not simplicity that is relative, it's what you are comparing it to that is the variable and relative factor.
__________________

__________________
My Blog
callmecrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sailing

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:48.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.