The Philosophy Behind Sailing Simply and Cheaply

[Astrid]

Sailing is a bit like camping out on a hike or long distance horseback trip--take what you need and leave the rest behind.

[SteveT]

Originally Posted by Astrid

Sailing is a bit like camping out on a hike or long distance horseback trip--take what you need and leave the rest behind.

I'll second that motion. And its a lot better than a tent when its lashing down with rain and cold and damp. A warm dry bed has a lot going for it after a cold wet day sailing.

As to philosophy - don't know if I agree with that entirely but then surely that is the point, each of us have our own reasons for sailing / cruising and budget or lack of it is often a necessity. I don't think being in a reasonable position financially makes one a worse cruiser nor does being less well off give any kind of cachet. Each individual has their own aspirations and how anyone chooses to reach their goals is entirely their choice. IMHO of course.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

What about scrapping a head and just using a bucket? Anybody doing that long term? And how about going without a frig and heater?

No frig here. Never had one in the shore life either. Never missed one. (Well there IS a frig here, just we never use it - it serves as a bottles box).

Head - ours broke twice in 10 years and both times I fixed it with inexpensive spare kits. Given the inconvenience of using the bucket I would stick with the head.

Heater - cannot be avoided in cold climes, methinks.

b.

[deckofficer]

There are certain things I can't change about myself, the enjoyment of a T-bone is one. Do I have one once a week, yes, do I pay $12.99/lb for them, no. That leads to the need of a freezer and stocking up when those $4.99/lb sales come along. Besides, with the new, efficient, portable chest freezers that can run on the output of around 120 watts of solar panels, it isn't a big deal for any sailboat or budget IMHO. All the free stuff I relish, sunsets and rises, the clean salty air, sounds of the waves lapping the hull, solitude when I want, socializing with the BBQing of those T-bones for my neighbors in the anchorage, it is the freedom that I enjoy, choices and all.

[barnakiel]

BTW

I am not sure why a boat should have 'all the comforts'. After all, we do not have sails nor winches in our land homes, do we. Why should a boat have all the comforts? (Read all the imaginable comforts, backed up for safety, and then some more).

I think it was Herreshoff who said a boat should not be like a house, it should be like a boat. And I think I know what he meant. Walk into any Oyster (name generic) and you do not even know you are in a boat! Now walk into a Herresshoff's boat ... you WILL see the difference.

'Simplicity sailing' may be an extreme but then again extremes are as relevant to the whole picture as any other point on the scale. Marinas may be tight, but the ocean is still vast. There is space for every one.

b.

[callmecrazy]

i think there's a big difference between simplicity and minimalism when it comes to sailing.

An Engel fridge, autopilot, vhf and various other electronics can easily be serviced with two batteries and a couple 60W solar panels. That's a simple, efficient, and mostly reliable electronics setup... But it's far from minimalism to have a fridge and electronic autopilot.

A bucket head is minimalism. But it's pretty simple to have a working manual head, holding tank, and 'minimal' plumbing for a working system.

Some people might consider using only a sextant, binoculars, and paper charts minimalism. But it's far more simple to use a gps on any regular basis.

I'm sure I could come up with other examples... The point I'm trying to make is that Minimalism is the extreme but, keeping your systems simple and, in general, enjoying the simple life, doesn't have to equate to 'doing without' and it doesn't have to be on the extreme end of any particular spectrum.

[Kojiro]

There has been much mention of the word "choice". Since we are talking philosophy that brings into question the very notion of whether we do in fact have choice (= freewill), or whether maybe everything has been determined (determinism...as in A leads to B leads to C, and so on).

The fundamental question, if I remember my Philosophy 102, is how do you answer the question: Having done A could I in fact have done B? Or, tougher maybe (impossible), how do you prove that having done A you could in fact have done B.

Sorry about the flashback.

[daddle]

Careful with that word minimize. It does not mean to reduce or lessen. It means to take it to the irreducible: the minimum. A bucket is not the minimum. Hanging ones outlet over the rail is the minimum. Or perhaps jumping in to make like a fish. It often seems silly to me to make all the effort to pump the waste thru all that plumbing.

There is a word for living with tools that are good enough rather than some idea of the best. But I don't remember the word. It's a scandinavian word and idea.

[callmecrazy]

Originally Posted by Kojiro

There has been much mention of the word "choice". Since we are talking philosophy that brings into question the very notion of whether we do in fact have choice (= freewill), or whether maybe everything has been determined (determinism...as in A leads to B leads to C, and so on).

The fundamental question, if I remember my Philosophy 102, is how do you answer the question: Having done A could I in fact have done B? Or, tougher maybe (impossible), how do you prove that having done A you could in fact have done B.

Sorry about the flashback.

If everything has been determined, that would inherently imply a creator, or some other type of controlling force... The fact that we are faced with options implies the freedom to make the choices. IF we're destined to proceed on a non-changing path, then the options that appear to us are a fallacy. And if our options are a fallacy, then why create them?

[mbianka]

IMO just living on a boat simplifies one's life automatically because you can't carry all the stuff you buy, acquired and acumulate over the years with you. That's a good thing. Being able to watch a sunrise and sunsets from my cockpit to me defines a "good day". But, to me it's not about foregoing technology altogether either. As I look back on my previous boat a 24 foot Bristol I would have to anchor near a marina or someplace where I could find a payphone to let my girlfriend know I was ok. So she would not worry. Today I can call her while I'm still at the helm and underway. Out of cell range I could use some type of Spot device to let her know I'm ok. I can also do things like blog, do banking get up to date weather radar repair advice via my computer or other devices. Technology like the Kindle also allows me to have more books than I could ever carry on board before and takes up less space than a single paperback. Even solar panels have transformed the cruising experience. These technologies are not really simple and do require a rather complex infrastructure to be built or operate. Yet, in a way they allow me to have more freedom than I ever had before.

[sycpuppy]

Long as I can get a boat, music, water, meds and a computer I'm good. Don't need much and I don't like being around people for extended periods of time but I would have to draw the line at not having access to all of e-books doc's and other reports and information I have collected over the years. Add a few ways to generate electricity w/o fuel.

Always fished in all the places I've lived, though I would consider when I used to fish at Punta Baja less of fishing and more of being the american made flotation device onboard a boat full locals that couldn't swim that had been drinking and were bailing like crazy while trying to deal with the lobster traps... good times... So I can fish and forage to add to a rice and bean diet. Almost everybody I know can make beer and work all different kinds of stills but it seems to me that I would have too modify a solar still... Hmm, ethanol based cooking fuel while I make grain alcohol. Could make rum but need more parts and cost more and would probably make the cooking fuel smell funny if I was using molasses. Whole thing would have to go in outside storage. Eh, enough ranting. Headed in the wrong direction.

Figured the part about foraging was too far afield to add.

Think that classifies me as mildly-antisocial hybrid minimalist/utilitarian/simple-minded/ techo/crackpot

[deckofficer]

Capt Mike, you and I have always been on the same wavelength and daddle even talking about a minimalistic approach while piloting a Santa Cruz 50, a contradiction if I ever saw one. Your boat outfitted for cruising has to be in the top 2% for pure speed, probably could give Nick in his Sundeer 64 a good run for his money on a passage. 20 years ago when I thought I had a very fast boat, I met a family in Mexico sailing their SC 50, and I was left in their wake on every point of sail, damn, your boat is fast.

[s/v Beth]

Man I had a few years of philosophy, but some of the posts leave me in the dust. I do like the comparison of simplify and minimalist. I must be into simplification, because I really do like my simple little levac head. I asked about the bucket because I wanted to see if it was really an option, I am kinda glad that it is not for most of us. But I agree with simple things, a hand held GPS is a wonder of science, but it sure makes it simple to run fixes. And if it breaks, there is the old fashioned way.
It sounds like everyone draws a different line on how much stuff they are willing to put up with.
To the guys without refrig- what do you do with your fresh fish?

[Bruce626]

Ram, in #22 of this thread - http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...s-61072-2.html although they are pre launch. The rig is a cutter design with fore and aft stays now, not the corner stays I thought was going to be installed.

[abh]

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

To the guys without refrig- what do you do with your fresh fish?

Well eat it of course. If it's too big, there is always something around that could use the rest.

It's one of the great thing about simplicity, if you don't have luxury items in stock, it is so much more exiting and rewarding when you catch some.