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Old 16-04-2012, 03:37   #391
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
While your here Lin, I would be really interested in knowing how you feel about the simplicity vs depervation issue: How simple do you think cruising can get before it becomes a hardship?
I am still trying to get this one straight in my own mind.
I think the answer is in your own mind....and each will be different, even if only in the nuances.

For some a bucket (as a Khazi!) will be a deprivation, for a minority a perfectly acceptable solution - whilst in the middle will include folks who can handle the idea (and practice!) if neccessary, and without having an attack of the vapours ......others may file for a divorce .

Each according to their needs (and pockets).
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Old 16-04-2012, 05:34   #392
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Now you're just messing with my head Pelagic! Those voices are real ...... aren't they?
Doodles:

No the voices are not real. But, sometimes they have real good ideas!
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Old 16-04-2012, 05:51   #393
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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I think the answer is in your own mind....and each will be different, even if only in the nuances.

For some a bucket (as a Khazi!) will be a deprivation, for a minority a perfectly acceptable solution - whilst in the middle will include folks who can handle the idea (and practice!) if neccessary, and without having an attack of the vapours ......others may file for a divorce .

Each according to their needs (and pockets).
Well said! I always try and remind myself of the three basic needs for survival. They are water, food and shelter. Everything else is gravy as far as being able to live. I'd say most of us are living way above that bench mark. For me being able to jump over the side for swim, having a glass of wine at sunset and not having to use an alarm clock to wake up makes me feel I'm really living each day like a King.
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Old 16-04-2012, 06:21   #394
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I simply can't afford more than I've got. I'd simply have less if I didn't have more, and if I could afford it I'd get rid of most of my old stuff and get more efficient new stuff.
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Old 16-04-2012, 07:23   #395
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pirate Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

[QUOTE=s/v Beth;932103... the simplicity vs depervation issue: How simple do you think cruising can get before it becomes a hardship? [/QUOTE]

Hey Newt, I asked once before because I don't get what you're saying here:

When does simplicity become deprivation? Example?

When does cruising become a hardship? (Not counting weather?)

Are you talking about AC, watermakers, and fridges here? In-mast furling systems? Buckets? Mossies?

I think you're speaking of something else entirely but not sure what.
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Old 16-04-2012, 07:37   #396
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Another video if anyonre's interested..



18 - 22 months you become self aware.

From then on no more than putty in the hands of the advertising industry..
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Old 16-04-2012, 08:59   #397
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
While your here Lin, I would be really interested in knowing how you feel about the simplicity vs depervation issue: How simple do you think cruising can get before it becomes a hardship?
I am still trying to get this one straight in my own mind.
Newt, I understand what you're struggling with, but for me, the choices don't run between a spectrum of simplicity to deprivation. Simplicity does not mean being deprived. In fact, I would argue the opposite. A simple life opens the door to more, not less.

But of course, you're right on a certain level. By living simply I am "deprived" of living faster than I do, of some level of convenience, of having a much greater level of immediate choice in things (food, clothes, cars, etc.), and a million other things I could have if I had a million dollars.

So yes, in some ways simplicity could be seen as leading to less, but as we've been discussing here (and as I know you also embrace), simplicity can lead to so much more; more time, more freedom, more health, more joy.

It's an easy choice to make.
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Old 16-04-2012, 10:00   #398
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Thanks all of you for your imput. Imagine two extremes: in one case you are sailing with water jugs, canned cold stew and a national geographic map. Maybe you have a windup am radio for fixes. The other is a nice bendy with all the bells and whistles. In one case you are in a ritzy hotel, the other you are uncomfortable but you have a true sailing experience.
What % of each is the best?
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Old 16-04-2012, 10:17   #399
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

"I think Lin hit on a very important point. Not so much about simplicity, or hardships, but EXERCISE! I'm about to sell the outboard I recently bought for the simple fact that rowing will give me a good workout. And I need it... All those good rice and beans I'm eating are starting to settle in all the wrong places "

I've been thinking along the same lines recently. Too much time sitting down in front of the computer all winter has been catching up to me weight wise too. So I was thinking about joining a health club. But, I started thinking those health club monthly dues add up and once the water hits 60 degrees F I'm swimming off the boat anyway. So I won't be using the membership for all of the summer and into the fall. Waste of money and besides swimming in pools is rather boring. So the other day I had an better idea. I ordered a full wet suit and will start swimming NOW in the harbor while it's still around the low 50's. The wet suit will also come in handy to have on board in case a lobster pot gets caught on the prop early or late in the season or for cleaning the bottom. A simple solution and multiple benefits. That works for me.
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Old 16-04-2012, 10:34   #400
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
Thanks all of you for your imput. Imagine two extremes: in one case you are sailing with water jugs, canned cold stew and a national geographic map. Maybe you have a windup am radio for fixes. The other is a nice bendy with all the bells and whistles. In one case you are in a ritzy hotel, the other you are uncomfortable but you have a true sailing experience.
What % of each is the best?
How about this? In one scenario you are traveling unencumbered and free. You have all you need: shelter, food, information, and a map to guide you. Your ships is basic, but sound, and contains all your needs. Your skills and resources easily match the maintenance needs of your floating home. You are independent and free.

In the other scenario you are probably chained to a boat mortgage. Sure, when it all works, it is wonderful, but b/c you are not a diesel mechanic, an electrician, a computer specialist and a refrigeration technician, you are basically moving from marina to marina to fix all the bells and whistles as they break down. It costs added $$$, which restricts your time aboard, and more importantly, your freedom to just be.

What % of each is the best?

OK, I'm being intentionally provacative . But my point is that you can construct any dichotomy you want, it doesn't necessarily mean anything real, nor does it tell you much.
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Old 16-04-2012, 10:39   #401
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

I like simple, that is for sure.
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Old 16-04-2012, 14:10   #402
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You should ask this guy that question

I think Lin hit on a very important point. Not so much about simplicity, or hardships, but EXERCISE!

I'm about to sell the outboard I recently bought for the simple fact that rowing will give me a good workout. And I need it... All those good rice and beans I'm eating are starting to settle in all the wrong places
I am still caught up in time vs money mode. An outboard dink saves me time and time is still limited. Many conveniences we add to a boat save time. I love Lin's point about sitting offshore 5 hours waiting for a breeze to get in to harbor. Many skippers I sail with fire up the donk when the breeze drops below 5 knots. I have no problem bobbing along going nowhere. Until the weekend clock starts its final countdown, then its motor back to the marina.

However, I want to be in the "row your dinghy" mode for the exercise.

Weekends are packed full of sailing and weeks are packed full of working. For now its great but of course I would rather be 7 days of cruising.
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Old 16-04-2012, 14:19   #403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Beth
Thanks all of you for your imput. Imagine two extremes: in one case you are sailing with water jugs, canned cold stew and a national geographic map. Maybe you have a windup am radio for fixes. The other is a nice bendy with all the bells and whistles. In one case you are in a ritzy hotel, the other you are uncomfortable but you have a true sailing experience.
What % of each is the best?
I don't think there is a cutoff line. It is totally different for each person. Water jugs and canned stew - i.e. one pot boat meals - don't bother me a bit. I don't think I would like a bucket on the transom and I think a very small ice maker is a luxury I would put high on the list. Maybe the ice perspecltive is due the tropic clime I am in. It's 90 and humid all the time. A cold drink at the end of the day is awesome! I don't need a shower as long as I can take a bucket bath once a day or two.

I dont need plotters and navigators and sattelite and radar and, and, and, and...

I have a gps in my phone and a backup handheld is plenty for passage making. It is interesting to watch your progress on an electronic chart when inshore but passage making I dont really care. Just log the lat lon every couple of hours in the log.

I view a strong inboard on the boat as important for maneuvering in strange new ports although I regularly practice picking up moorings and docking under sail. An engine failure wouldn't make me head for the nearest safe harbor or interrupt my plan.

In fact most gear failure shouldn't be a drama between destinations.
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Old 16-04-2012, 15:15   #404
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
Thanks all of you for your imput. Imagine two extremes: in one case you are sailing with water jugs, canned cold stew and a national geographic map. Maybe you have a windup am radio for fixes. The other is a nice bendy with all the bells and whistles. In one case you are in a ritzy hotel, the other you are uncomfortable but you have a true sailing experience.
What % of each is the best?
That is presuming that in option A you are uncomfortable (canned cold stew? - you should taste some of the crap I come up with! ).....and that the "Sailing Experiance" is any better, let alone "True" (WTF is that? ).

Which is "Better" depends on both the individual concerned (what they can do and WTF they want) and other circumstances - especially financial. all of which change over time and from events outside of own control.

But FWIW, for the true path to enlightenment you need............an Armchair .
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Old 16-04-2012, 15:43   #405
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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I am still caught up in time vs money mode. An outboard dink saves me time and time is still limited. Many conveniences we add to a boat save time. I love Lin's point about sitting offshore 5 hours waiting for a breeze to get in to harbor. Many skippers I sail with fire up the donk when the breeze drops below 5 knots. I have no problem bobbing along going nowhere. Until the weekend clock starts its final countdown, then its motor back to the marina.

However, I want to be in the "row your dinghy" mode for the exercise.

Weekends are packed full of sailing and weeks are packed full of working. For now its great but of course I would rather be 7 days of cruising.
I hear ya, time is valuable

This is what I like about keeping my work life simple. I work below my pay grade and skill level on purpose, because it would require a major commitment to either start my own company or work my way up the ladder somewhere. And then you have all the extra stress involved with either process... This way, I can go to any city and make the same amount of money doing any number of different types of work. That free's up cruising time in-between jobs. Even though it takes longer to save the same amount of money, I have no stress at work, no major responsiblities, no major commitments. It means nothing to me to quit a job and take off for a few months and land in a different city and do it all again (been living this way for many years, just haven't put it into the cruising context yet since this is still my first year on the boat)... Ideally (once the boat is 'finished') I'll be able to Just save up for a while, then take a nice long 6 month vacation where rowing the dink and waiting for wind won't be so stressful Then head back to reality, in a city/region of my choosing and get another simple job. Then do it all again the next year...

The only downside is I'm forced to keep my life and my boat as simple as possible to compensate for the lower income

But for me, the only alternative (so far) would be to work and save for 10+ years and then 'retire' to a few good years of non-stop cruising on a slightly nicer boat. The only problem I have with that is I'd probably be in a nuthouse by the 5th or 6th year And god forbid something should happen during that 10 years that prevented me from cruising. I'd never forgive myself for not taking my chances with the lower income and simpler boat. My time is extremely valuable to me. Much more valuable than what people are willing to trade for it with money...

At least, that's how I justify it to fit into my personal philosophy Or is it that I created my philosophy to fit my career choices? I'm confused...
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