Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-04-2012, 23:02   #346
Registered User
 
Doodles's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Virginia, USA & Krabi, Thailand
Boat: Wauquiez Pretorien 35; Nordica 16
Posts: 2,810
Images: 1
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
And just try to find whale oil and buggy whips in north america... The world is going to he11 in a handbasket.

I know I am going to say this wrong and get on the wrong side of this discussion...

Mahathir basically told the west to pound sand in regards to logging and polution. Someone mentioned the 3rd world getting their 100 years of polution and environmental destruction. That was Mahathir's point as well. However, the developing world should be able to help them leapfrog us in terms of renewable growth.

In regards to indigenous species, I think that we don't seek them out or seek to disturb their ways but if they come out of the jungle looking for shotguns and rum who are we to say no? It's pretty arrogant in my mind that we say, "no get your butts back in the trees", but my philosophy is pretty darn different than everyone else.

It starts with manage my footprint as small as practicable but dont forget I am at the top of the food chain. I'm gonna use what I think I need, responsibly.

The planet is strong. Way stronger than any of us. When she is ready, or when an astrological event happens, she will shake us off like fleas on a dogs back. Whatever species are left will take over. Yes maybe roaches for a while. We are arrogant thinking we can stop it or more importantly the will to work together as a species to solve the issues.

The world has gone from something like 5 billion to 7.5 billion in the last 50 years. There is lots of space left and lots of basic resources but the draining of fossil fuel is inevitable and with fracking, which I am concerned about but haven't seen the science for, big change is inevitable. Humans are the fossil fuel crackheads of the planet and we will destroy ourselves getting the last drops out.

Save the Planet? No need. The planet wil be here long after we are gone. Save ourselves? Don't see it happening...
I think you said it fine, and I'll have to join you on that wrong side of the discussion.
__________________

__________________
Doodles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2012, 23:19   #347
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 20,226
Images: 2
pirate Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
;-)

It is more perhaps related to what kind of people they are than to the size of boat they are sailing?
We have a 26' mono and we made great and lasting friendships with a number of 50+ bells and whistlers. Accidentally, we had to steer well clear of some small craft that we happened to meet along the way ...

!

barnie
Well Shut mah mouth.....
I never thought of that....
Was not the 21 footer.... just the smug ******* on it....
Cheers mate... may just make it to a Barbie one day... if I can be less smug...
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 07:28   #348
Senior Cruiser
 
s/v Beth's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
Boat: Valiant 40 (1975)
Posts: 4,066
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Well at this point I have said about all I want to say. I think we will all go on sailing. Hopefully, we will sail with thoughtfulness and will be careful of what is around us. In fact, that is one of my favorite things-
Slip silently into a harbor.
Set the hook on sail,
Dingy in without saying a word.
Get my stuff,
and leave before anyone realizes I'm there...
__________________
s/v Beth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 08:58   #349
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 4,042
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
The planet is strong. Way stronger than any of us. When she is ready, or when an astrological event happens, she will shake us off like fleas on a dogs back. Whatever species are left will take over. Yes maybe roaches for a while. We are arrogant thinking we can stop it or more importantly the will to work together as a species to solve the issues.

...

Save the Planet? No need. The planet wil be here long after we are gone. Save ourselves? Don't see it happening...
Well said to my ears Ex.

This realization crystallized for me one day when I was paddling down a remote river on a solo canoe trip. I realized (probably after doing something silly in a set of rapids) that the planet doesn't care whether I, or my species, or indeed any species, continues to survive. The planet will go on just fine with or without us.

But what is truly interesting is that we -- Homo sapiens -- can see into the future, and we can also care about other species and ecosystems.

I find this fascinating.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 23:01   #350
Registered User
 
sparau's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: sunshine coast, aus
Boat: laser 2
Posts: 300
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

This seems like a fair time and place to add a question, somewhat off simple sailing but it seems like that kind of thread

My business partner and i were discussing the other day about how when we need to employ support and staff how best to do it.

we were talking about sending work off-shore (from aus), not for the usual reason of low wages, but rather to help even out some of the monetary imbalances between nations. obviously it would be easier to choose an english speaking nation with some education (basically 1st level support on an IT product), so not exactly trying to subvert an untainted culture.

it could be possible (once i have a boat and become capable...) of sailing somewhere and setting up the infrastructure and training to do it. thoughts? there's been some good pros and cons in this thread.

about the only thing i thought was a complete no-no would be to go to a culture where time is not important and introduce 8 hour work days... lol, i can't imagine anything more hideous to introduce! perhaps train more people for shorter shifts, share the income around also?

i suppose clearly the easiest thing (and arguably best) would be to find a remotish location in aus where there wasn't much industry and introduce one.
__________________
laser 2 with a 470 main = tippy little boat
sparau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-04-2012, 04:01   #351
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
the planet doesn't care whether I, or my species, or indeed any species, continues to survive. The planet will go on just fine with or without us.
At least until the sun Explodes

My understanding (AKA vague recollection!) is that for most of the Earth's existence it hasn't been capable of sustaining any life, human or not....so we are only a (minor) abberation from the norm.

The good news is that if we suck out all the oil and destroy the atmosphere we will only be returning the earth to it's natural / normal state .....and who can quibble with that?
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-04-2012, 05:35   #352
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,596
Images: 240
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
... My understanding (AKA vague recollection!) is that for most of the Earth's existence it hasn't been capable of sustaining any life, human or not ...
As I understand it, “Life” has existed on earth for over 80% of it’s history.

The Earth is probably a little over 4.5 billion years old; and life on Earth began, with single-celled prokaryotic cells (like bacteria), about 3.8 billion years ago.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-04-2012, 06:14   #353
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 4,042
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
As I understand it, “Life” has existed on earth for over 80% of it’s history.

The Earth is probably a little over 4.5 billion years old; and life on Earth began, with single-celled prokaryotic cells (like bacteria), about 3.8 billion years ago.
Exactly!. "Life" is more the norm than not, at least on our little chunk of rock (so far). We've got another 4.5-5 billion years before being consumed by Sol as it goes through its red giant stage.

Of course, while life has been the norm, our kind of life; oxygen-breathers, really didn't take hold until about 1.2 billion years ago (if memory serves). Before that our atmosphere was dominated by CO2, SO2 and CH4. Earth's atmosphere very much resembled Venus of today. Not a very hospitable place for you or I.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-04-2012, 07:11   #354
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparau View Post
(...)

about the only thing i thought was a complete no-no would be to go to a culture where time is not important and introduce 8 hour work days... lol, i can't imagine anything more hideous to introduce! perhaps train more people for shorter shifts, share the income around also?

(...)
This IS a whole new story. And a good topic for a whole separate thread (although possibly in a different forum).

You know there are some people who really never took to the western idea of work at all (e.g. indigenous Australians). There are also EU countries where 8 hour work days are actually a pretty intangible thing.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2012, 02:22   #355
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Probably in an anchorage or a boatyard..
Boat: Ebbtide 33' steel cutter
Posts: 3,542
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply



Maybe we are all living the simple life anyway, but just kid ourselves otherwise..
__________________
conachair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2012, 06:48   #356
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 4,042
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

It's clear from research that humans excel at self delusion. We do what we want, and then rationalize our behaviour with a narrative. That narrative often makes some sort of sense, but sometimes even we can tell we're fooling ourselves.

In The Happiness Hypothesis, Jonathan Haidt creates the analogy of the human riding the elephant to explain the relationship between the rational self and the emotional self. The rational self, the rider, can nudge and guide the emotional self, the elephant, as long as the elephant is happy to go that way, or at least is ambivalent. But as soon as the elephant, the emotional self, wants something, all bets are off. The rider no longer has any control, and is simply taken along for the ride. In the end, the rider is left trying to explain why his/her elephant just trampled through a fence to get to some delicious melons.

The research on all this suggests we humans are in far less rational control than we delude ourselves into believing. We want to live a comfortable life, so we rationalize our use of energy, resources, etc. We want to live and cruise on a sailboat, so we create all manner of rational reasons around living simply and cheaply .

It's all great fun.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2012, 08:15   #357
Senior Cruiser
 
s/v Beth's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
Boat: Valiant 40 (1975)
Posts: 4,066
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

My response to Mr Watts:
Invictus by William Ernest Henley:
Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.
In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds and shall find me unafraid.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

So take that Bainbridge Scholars!
__________________
s/v Beth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2012, 08:30   #358
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Probably in an anchorage or a boatyard..
Boat: Ebbtide 33' steel cutter
Posts: 3,542
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
The rational self, the rider, can nudge and guide the emotional self, the elephant, as long as the elephant is happy to go that way, or at least is ambivalent. But as soon as the elephant, the emotional self, wants something, all bets are off. The rider no longer has any control, and is simply taken along for the ride. In the end, the rider is left trying to explain why his/her elephant just trampled through a fence to get to some delicious melons.
Nice analogy. Luckily, with it living on s boat and all, my elephant is a big fan of not really having any roots anywhere and is very keen on a fair degree of self reliance

New mission statement on-board. "Forget mission statements, just follow the elephant"

My elephant fancies a quick pint
__________________
conachair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2012, 08:48   #359
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 4,042
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by conachair View Post
Nice analogy. Luckily, with it living on s boat and all, my elephant is a big fan of not really having any roots anywhere and is very keen on a fair degree of self reliance

New mission statement on-board. "Forget mission statements, just follow the elephant"

My elephant fancies a quick pint
Yup, as Watts was saying, the key to life is to follow the elephant ... hopefully he takes me to that pint of beer I'm not craving. Thanks Conachair
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2012, 08:56   #360
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 4,042
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
My response to Mr Watts:
Invictus by William Ernest Henley:
Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.
In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds and shall find me unafraid.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

So take that Bainbridge Scholars!
Ah, if only it were true .

Actually, research suggests it is possible to take more command of the elephant (to stick with the analogy). Haidt writes that there are three proven ways to change the elephant: Years of psychotherapy (western approach), years of meditation training (eastern approach), or psychometric drugs (easy approach).

To my thinking, you just gotta love who you are. Kick the elephant around when you can. Smooth out the ugly edges as best you can. But in the end you gotta accept who you really are.
__________________

__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sailing

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:12.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.