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Old 09-04-2012, 05:37   #286
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I cannot see any particular merit in the "simple" lifestyle. An affordable one yes, a " no more complexity then necessary ", yes. But to suggest there is some philosophical peace of mind in simple is in my mind a delusion. I have lived " simply" when I was young with very few modern conveniences. It's not all it's cracked up to be.

The other thing is that it's important to have a boat you can actually fix. My moto in adding complexity is can I fix it or when it breaks can I live without it. After that I don't sweat the complexity. Also I find if I maintain my systems , you dont get that much failure on board anyway. But then I like ( in general ) fixing things. ( as always some boat systems drive me nuts). So to me simple doesn't mean I can't have tech things. I really think people over sweat the repair issues. I have met people who in reality should never be let near fixing a boat , or in fact never be let purchase one in the first place.

In the past I've built my own charging systems, DC generator, electrical panels, solar, and a water maker. I can sew, do reasonable carpentry and bash metal poorly. I've used as many skills keeping my house functioning as my boat.

What I do believe is simplicity is in decoupling from the western rat race mania. This is a route to an early grave. The pursuit of wealth is not conducive to health and happiness except for a tiny few , who through luck or intellect manage to do otherwise.

Again I think putting forward the view that not having gadget X or convince Y or board you are living a better life or a superior moral viewpoint, is nonsense. Monks practiced self-flagellation to improve their moral character , this seems a bit like that.

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Old 09-04-2012, 05:49   #287
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

I am not going to begrudge you your refrigerators, Foolish has done an nice summary. And DOJ cracks me up. I would just comment on his post (285) Simple does not mean you cannot support a good economy. If I dingy in and buy fresh food from the locals, they will get my money just the same. If fact, buying from Best Buy (or Harrods) I have no idea where my money goes. Living simply puts the money often in local pockets, which is kinda a side light of this philosophy. Oh, I know where the money goes when I get in debt. (and it's not pretty)
Dave, am I the savage in Brave New World? Perhaps, but I am comfortable with that.
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:13   #288
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
For me this thread gets more interesting each page.

It seems that living simply doesnt necessarily require a luddite approach to non-materialism but merely acting and living consciously.

If I want a fridge on my boat and I am buying it because I have fully considered the benefits and drawbacks and not just because it is a "bell and whistle" then I would say you would still be living within the loose tenet of Simplicty.

I like the idea that simplicity can be "inclusive" instead of "exclusive"

I have redifined a bit my view on it from this thread. For me it seems to break down to just the following

1. Live Consciously - evaluate your choices before and after
2. Minimize your footprint - Global to Personal

Thats it.

Living counsciously is pretty straightforward - be aware of why you are making choices and then constantly question them

Minimizing your footprint Global = minimize your environmental impact, Cultural = dont leave a dirty wake in the cultures you encounter, Personal = be aware of the impact you have on your loved ones


I also think this is a good summary.

Living consciously is a big part of it for me, because in doing so, you are removing yourself from 'the machine' of the modern world. That system is setup to keep people pacified and ignorant so they can continually hand their incomes over to big corporations and keep working until they are almost dead.... If you're conscious of the local economy (wherever you may be at the time) you can choose where you're money goes. If you're conscience of your wake, then you lessen your impact. And if you're conscience of yourself, then you can find the things that make you happy, and make them happen...

There does seem to be some happy middle ground within this lifestyle (and with sailboats). Finding it might be easier for some people than others, but I think most may never look for it.... And I do believe it's somewhat dependent on a persons budget, but it's there to be had for everybody.
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:23   #289
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Well I'm not into self-flagellation (no matter what you may have heard). I'm a lifelong coastal cruiser. My dad and I went from Redondo to Catalina a million times in a 20' boat. So I know for a fact that I don't need a big boat. If I did I would have one.

Same with the fridge. Not much of a cook. I haven't ever needed a fridge. Ice keeps beer cold. I go ashore a lot. The dink is important to me, not a fridge. I'm fairly sure I eat as much FRESH lobster as the richest guy on CF.

I don't need a forward-looking sonar, chartplotter, or radar ... ad nauseum. I can see sandbars and coral heads. Usually.

I eschew modern conveniences, not philosophically but for practical reasons. Always wanted a boat with a diesel. Now I have that. No purist here.

I am amused at the folks who seem to need so much more but can't even sail their boat well. Gotta have A/C? Why not just stay home and watch TV? Or, you're a circumnavigator? Sure, man. Oh yeah, me too.
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:22   #290
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
... For me it seems to break down to just the following

1. Live Consciously - evaluate your choices before and after
2. Minimize your footprint - Global to Personal

Thats it.

Living counsciously is pretty straightforward - be aware of why you are making choices and then constantly question them

Minimizing your footprint Global = minimize your environmental impact, Cultural = dont leave a dirty wake in the cultures you encounter, Personal = be aware of the impact you have on your loved ones
I agree, but I would suggest that #1 is, in fact, the hardest thing for those of us conditioned into the perpetual-growth, consume-till-you-die societies -- at least it is for me.

For me, it all comes down to wants vs needs. Rather, it comes down to navigating the grey zone between these two extremes. Do I want an iPad? - You bet I do! Do I need an iPad? - I've convinced myself it may simplify my onboard life by being a navigation tool, a library and a means of making money while afloat (I'm a writer by trade). Is this self-delusion? - Quite possibly. Research shows we humans excel at self-delusion.

Anyhoo, I think living consciously is the most difficult part of simplicity. It explains (to me) why some people sit at the dock, boats loaded with all the best, shiny new stuff.
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:51   #291
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

“A house is just a place to keep your stuff while you go out and get more stuff.”
“Have you ever noticed that their stuff is **** and your **** is stuff?”
“Property is theft. Nobody “owns” anything. When you die, it all stays here.
“Capitalism tries for a delicate balance: It attempts to work things out so that everyone gets just enough stuff to keep them from getting violent and trying to take other people’s stuff.”

George Carlin Talks About "Stuff"
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:00   #292
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Thanks for getting things back on track Gordy.
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:12   #293
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post

.....I like the idea that simplicity can be "inclusive" instead of "exclusive"

I have redifined a bit my view on it from this thread. For me it seems to break down to just the following

1. Live Consciously - evaluate your choices before and after
2. Minimize your footprint - Global to Personal

Thats it. ....
Then again…. It is nice to have some sizzle with that steak!...

Janis said it best...

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Old 09-04-2012, 09:43   #294
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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George Carlin Talks About "Stuff"
The master speaks the truth. Thanks Gord.
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Old 09-04-2012, 09:52   #295
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Well, if we really wanted simple we would all be paddling homemade wooden rafts with sculling oars.

I don't see it happening. I like the concept of freedom chips. It is not how much money you have or make, but how much free time or mobility what money you have gives you.

Living in poverty or with poverty doesn't allow one to cruise anywhere.

The people who have the most ability to cruise are those who worked hard, lived below their means, and saved as much as they could, so they could buy a boat large or small and live off of their savings. (or retirement).

One big advantage I see of living on the water is no lawn to mow. I would rather sand and paint a deck than reshingle a house.

Property taxes are several times higher than dock fees. Tahiti has a much better view than a suburb. Annoying neighbors can be left behind. And if the ice maker is broke I can always go somewhere and buy ice.

The lone sailer on a 20' flicka, and the owner of a 100' ketch have a lot more in common than differences. They both used their assets to cut their ties and live an adventure.
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Old 09-04-2012, 19:32   #296
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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The people who have the most ability to cruise are those who worked hard, lived below their means, and saved as much as they could, so they could buy a boat large or small and live off of their savings.
True words. And if a person has a set amount of $, he can go sailing longer on a simpler yacht, until he reaches the point it is so basic that it is not fun anymore. So we all reach our balance, and as long as we understand what we are doing there is no stress.

I think I will go meditate on my deck now...
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Old 09-04-2012, 19:37   #297
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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The people who have the most ability to cruise are those who worked hard, lived below their means, and saved as much as they could, so they could buy a boat large or small and live off of their savings. (or retirement).
So true, but we have sure taken a hit when interest rates on savings dropped from 4.75% to 0.95%. I still wimper a bit.
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Old 09-04-2012, 19:52   #298
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

[QUOTE=s/v Beth;927665]... And if a person has a set amount of $, he can go sailing longer on a simpler yacht, until he reaches the point it is so basic that it is not fun anymore. [QUOTE]

Newt, I'm not the brightest bulb but I don't see how this follows.

Explication?
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Old 09-04-2012, 20:03   #299
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

I think Newt means that you are down to … “treading water”
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Old 09-04-2012, 20:07   #300
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by capn_billl
The people who have the most ability to cruise are those who worked hard, lived below their means, and saved as much as they could, so they could buy a boat large or small and live off of their savings. (or retirement).
naw, add to that

people on defined benefit pensions
redundancy payoffs.
once off financial gains
inherited wealth
funded by debt, who cares there still out there having fun.

many ways bill,

dave
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