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Old 08-04-2012, 20:37   #271
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Ok so you don't want a list on a philosophy thread. That's fair enough- I will make a new thread on that. I feel like the less I have on a boat the happier I will be (within reason)
So if I dry my own meat and eat in stews, I can cut out the R word. If I get a stove that works on diesel and warms the boat, I can cut out the heater. If I get a smaller boat with sweeps I might be able to cut out the auxillary and so on. But will I be happier??? I can only know by trying. This I am sure of: I can take my compac out on the Great Salt Lake (40 miles wide and 120 miles long), sail to a deserted island, drop anchor and spend the night. I feel just as refreshed coming back as taking my Valiant out with all its gadgets and staying in the San Juans.
Will the minimal amount work for longer trips?
Only time will tell.
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Old 08-04-2012, 20:41   #272
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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This is all starting to sound like a Zen discussion on the nature of existence. As Mike and Conachair put us back on track- I'm going to go with it. Perhaps sailing simply is just learning to do without and be happy about it.

I have a number of books by Lynn and Larry. One of them lists all the stuff they put on the boat for cruising. What if I were to reproduce a list, and we see what we can do without and come up with an ultimate essentials list.
Anybody interested?

I think that is a great idea Newt, but perhaps better started in a new thread (Sailing Essentials…?)… since this one has developed a strong philosophical element.
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Old 08-04-2012, 20:42   #273
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Ha! ... you just beat me to it...LOL
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Old 08-04-2012, 21:13   #274
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Back to the Philosophical side of simple sailing….. Another argument...

I hear many on this Forum talk about earning cruising “Freedom Chips” which I guess means that:… savings and liquidity (pun intended) takes precedence over accumulating ever more financial wealth.

Since most cruising sailors are either retired or have taken a sabbatical away from their maximum income generating capabilities,….then by definition, they are cruising on a finite budget.

So I believe that this budget forces a personal level of simplicity in sailing as a self-fulfilling prophecy, if we want it to be sustainable?
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Old 08-04-2012, 21:23   #275
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Ok I have the list. Need to get some permissions to avoid copyright problems- stay tuned.
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Old 08-04-2012, 21:44   #276
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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... So I believe that this budget forces a personal level of simplicity in sailing as a self-fulfilling prophecy, if we want it to be sustainable?
Financial necessity is certainly a major motivator for me to keep things simple and inexpensive, but it's not the only driving force. I could certainly have chosen (could still choose I suppose) a traditional life here in Canada, but I have not. I carry these same principles with me as I move from land to sea.

So a small budget drives some of my decisions to keep my boat life simple, but I think my limited budget is itself a consequence of my approach to life.
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Old 08-04-2012, 22:00   #277
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So, if we suddenly hit the lottery how many of us would be living simply on a boat? That might answer the financial motivation question.
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Old 08-04-2012, 22:44   #278
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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So, if we suddenly hit the lottery how many of us would be living simply on a boat? That might answer the financial motivation question.
A lot of people that win the lottery choose to maintain their life the same way, I would probably just sail more.

BTW- the new thread on Cruising Essentials is up. Lin Pardey was very gracious in letting me use a part of their book.
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Old 08-04-2012, 22:47   #279
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Quote:
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A lot of people that win the lottery choose to maintain their life the same way, I would probably just sail more.

BTW- the new thread on Cruising Essentials is up. Lin Pardey was very gracious in letting me use a part of their book.
I've always heard most blow it in a short time and go back to their old ways.
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Old 08-04-2012, 22:48   #280
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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I've always heard most blow it in a short time and go back to their old ways.
That is what I've heard also. Must be the mind set of folks that would play the lottery a lot.
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Old 08-04-2012, 22:53   #281
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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So, if we suddenly hit the lottery how many of us would be living simply on a boat? That might answer the financial motivation question.
Perhaps living in the Philippines can be considered financially akin to winning a lottery, but I never think of it that way, since I love the lifestyle here on a conservative budget.

I
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:11   #282
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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But will I be happier??? I can only know by trying.
Back to philosophy Now this does seem to be a very western thing, the difference of planned contentment in the future and being happy now. Sorry if this comes across as having a go Newt, it's really not meant to, it's just that it touches on something i find interesting. And hard to put into words, but here goes..
I have a fridge. It's OK, it works and has done for 5 years. Bit of power but not the end of the world. And and electric windlass, solo it's very good. Don't regret fitting that. Maybe some of what we're trying to get away from on a simple boat is not the actual "bad" bit of complexity but the feeling that they don't deliver that "perfect world" we think exists and would like to be in. I think I might go a middle road (how terribly buddhist ) not completely stripped down but not too complex. The boat can carry on happily without a lot of the bits working.
So if i can be content enough not to be too bothered when bits break and get round to fixing them at some point, and enjoy the benefits when they (most of the time cos it ain't that complex) do work. Then that's a fairly good compromise.
From experience, planning to be happy has never really worked for me. Or actually any degree of planning other than "that way.."
Best avoided.

Enjoy today
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:50   #283
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Back to philosophy Now this does seem to be a very western thing, the difference of planned contentment in the future and being happy now. Sorry if this comes across as having a go Newt, it's really not meant to, it's just that it touches on something i find interesting. And hard to put into words, but here goes..
I have a fridge. It's OK, it works and has done for 5 years. Bit of power but not the end of the world. And and electric windlass, solo it's very good. Don't regret fitting that. Maybe some of what we're trying to get away from on a simple boat is not the actual "bad" bit of complexity but the feeling that they don't deliver that "perfect world" we think exists and would like to be in. I think I might go a middle road (how terribly buddhist ) not completely stripped down but not too complex. The boat can carry on happily without a lot of the bits working.
So if i can be content enough not to be too bothered when bits break and get round to fixing them at some point, and enjoy the benefits when they (most of the time cos it ain't that complex) do work. Then that's a fairly good compromise.
From experience, planning to be happy has never really worked for me. Or actually any degree of planning other than "that way.."
Best avoided.

Enjoy today
This also raises the question ..."how do you know something will make your life simpler or happier until you've tried it?" Maybe initially a frig or electric windlass seems more complicated because it just is and there is more to break, but maybe an electric windlass saves your back or your spouse's which in the long run makes life more simple/happier. Maybe a large catamaran with lots of systems keeps the family as a whole more content which makes your (Captain/chief fix it guy) life easier. So, more complexity can = simpler and happier. No?
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:17   #284
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

For me this thread gets more interesting each page.

It seems that living simply doesnt necessarily require a luddite approach to non-materialism but merely acting and living consciously.

If I want a fridge on my boat and I am buying it because I have fully considered the benefits and drawbacks and not just because it is a "bell and whistle" then I would say you would still be living within the loose tenet of Simplicty.

I like the idea that simplicity can be "inclusive" instead of "exclusive"

I have redifined a bit my view on it from this thread. For me it seems to break down to just the following

1. Live Consciously - evaluate your choices before and after
2. Minimize your footprint - Global to Personal

Thats it.

Living counsciously is pretty straightforward - be aware of why you are making choices and then constantly question them

Minimizing your footprint Global = minimize your environmental impact, Cultural = dont leave a dirty wake in the cultures you encounter, Personal = be aware of the impact you have on your loved ones
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:51   #285
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Of course if everyone lived the simple and cheap (and non-economically productive) life of a cruiser (on whatever budget) - your "home" country would have the economy of Haiti.......and you would be about as welcome elsewhere as a local from Haiti - but the Penguins might thank you!

Although am not terribly comfortable with the term "Philosophy" I think one of the key points is being both able to and get enjoyment from thinking ahead financially, including getting the joy of deferred gratification - whether for an onboard Jacuzzi or a pot of paint .....rather than adopting the very common (and nowadays essential approach for the wider economy ) of want it now, use someone else's money and worry about affording it later.

On that latter point, "Afford" is a word that has somewhat stretched it's meaning in modern times ......IMO "Afford" does not include needing to borrow to fund lifestyle choices, let alone toys (even if the self delusion is that "by borrowing I am maxmising the return on my assets" or some such nonsense ). But as always, YMMV .
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