Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-04-2012, 12:31   #256
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Probably in an anchorage or a boatyard..
Boat: Ebbtide 33' steel cutter
Posts: 3,537
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Interestingly, zen and tao will give two simple, but opposite, clues:

Zen : sail and like the way you sail.

Tao : sail the way you like to sail.

;-)
b.
Ouch, my head hurts! Don't know how i like to sail. Without breaking too much!
__________________

__________________
conachair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 14:13   #257
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by foolishsailor View Post
(...) Poverty level (...) which is approx 11k/year.(...)
Methinks @ 11k a year I could call this mortail coil quits, cast the lines and stay in the islands for ever!

b.
__________________

__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 14:47   #258
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 4,031
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Methinks @ 11k a year I could call this mortail coil quits, cast the lines and stay in the islands for ever!
b.
At the risk of undoing the efforts to get this thread back on track, it's important to be aware that poverty is largely a relative issue. Comparing absolute income in dollars across differing local economies says very little about the realities of impoverished people here (or there).

Beyond the level of starvation (which is a reality for 1 billion people), poverty needs to be understood in terms of the local society and economy. Not sure about the US, but in Canada a $11,000 income would mean the person could not house, cloth and feed themselves. It is irrelevant that they could live like kings in Burkina Faso on this income.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 16:52   #259
Registered User
 
Doodles's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Virginia, USA & Krabi, Thailand
Boat: Wauquiez Pretorien 35; Nordica 16
Posts: 2,810
Images: 1
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
You don't think we're mature enough to have a reasonable conversation about the value of specific cruising tools without getting into a "my way is the best way" fight?

... yeah, you're probably right .
Wow, you sure miss a lot when you are 12 time zones away.

I have to agree with conachair on the list thing and I don't think that's what he said Mike. There is no shortage of "lists" out there if that's what you want. But lists are so left-brain thinking and it seems to me we need more right-brain thinking. This is about "philosophy" right?
__________________
Mundis Ex Igne Factus Est
Doodles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 17:11   #260
cruiser

Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Key West FL - Burlington VT
Boat: O'day 32 CC Ketch
Posts: 493
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

I avoided this thread until today and after reading it I was hoping for more. I'm a bit confused, I'm a tech systems geek so everything is complicated. Its been said here though that its not about what you have. So can I really be a simple cruiser if im obsessed with A/C, fridge,windlass, ect...
Simple means different things to different people.
__________________
RabidRabbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 17:15   #261
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doodles View Post
(...) But lists are so left-brain thinking and it seems to me we need more right-brain thinking. (...)
This is a well rotten right wing talk. Communism is as good a system as any and if it did not work twas only because Lenin was goofy.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 17:20   #262
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by RabidRabbit View Post
(...) Simple means different things to different people.
Most definitions of 'simple' stress simplicity. Which one do you follow?

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 17:25   #263
Registered User
 
Doodles's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Virginia, USA & Krabi, Thailand
Boat: Wauquiez Pretorien 35; Nordica 16
Posts: 2,810
Images: 1
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by RabidRabbit View Post
I avoided this thread until today and after reading it I was hoping for more. I'm a bit confused, I'm a tech systems geek so everything is complicated. Its been said here though that its not about what you have. So can I really be a simple cruiser if im obsessed with A/C, fridge,windlass, ect...
Simple means different things to different people.
The simple answer is ... no.

You need to get with the program and don't be making trouble with talk like that. You are likely to start a revolt or something.
__________________
Mundis Ex Igne Factus Est
Doodles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 18:43   #264
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 4,031
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doodles View Post
Wow, you sure miss a lot when you are 12 time zones away.

I have to agree with conachair on the list thing and I don't think that's what he said Mike. There is no shortage of "lists" out there if that's what you want. But lists are so left-brain thinking and it seems to me we need more right-brain thinking. This is about "philosophy" right?
Sorry Doodles, it was my poor attempt at humour. No offence intended.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 19:01   #265
Registered User
 
Doodles's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Virginia, USA & Krabi, Thailand
Boat: Wauquiez Pretorien 35; Nordica 16
Posts: 2,810
Images: 1
No problem. I often miss the humor in comments.
__________________
Mundis Ex Igne Factus Est
Doodles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 19:26   #266
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by RabidRabbit
I avoided this thread until today and after reading it I was hoping for more. I'm a bit confused, I'm a tech systems geek so everything is complicated. Its been said here though that its not about what you have. So can I really be a simple cruiser if im obsessed with A/C, fridge,windlass, ect...
Simple means different things to different people.
Of course, simple is a completely relative term. There is no "right" way to cruise. You can have a boat loaded to the gunnels with sophistication and that may be right for you. Like you I'm a geek, I like fixings things , I like complicating things at times. ( there's always room for one more indicator led) what I'm comfortable with is not the same as the next person.

Nothing is "right" persay. What works for Lin and Larry may or may not work for you. That doesn't invalidate their views OR yours.

To return briefly. Cruising/sailing is undoubtably a first world rich mans activity. In fact it's almost an exclusive Western European and it's former colonies activities. In fact it's nearly exclusively a Anglo Saxo/french thing, with a smattering of Europeans added. It's relies on the existence of a first world support network and supply chain. Does that mean there are no others sailing around. , of course not, bit they are statistically irrelevant for most people sailing is a hobby like golf , skiing etc. they will spend significant amounts of income on it. And they will use it quite infrequently. They will generally stay within 30 miles of their marina. That's the vast majority. They will demand a boat with a fair proportion of their home comforts. The support infrastructure is there to support them , they don't spend every waking hour fixing things , they pay people to do that .

The Rest are a small group of cruisers and other groups that are dedicated to their boat, they (we) are the hippies of the sailing world, we are tiny in number, we form peculiar beliefs based on our own experiences, we run the gamut from the bucket and chuck it brigade to the all singing all dancing ice cream maker aboard types.

In reality so what.

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 20:10   #267
Registered User
 
callmecrazy's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Boat: Tartan 30
Posts: 1,548
Images: 1
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

I'm not sure that simplicity is entirely relative.

I think there's a large number of people/sailors that believe they are living simply, or that their boats are simple, but in reality, it's not...

I used to be a pro-geek as well. Gave it up for a different lifestyle long before I found sailing. But once I started simplifying my life (on purpose), I began to realize just how overly complicated it was in the past.

There's no question that a boat loaded with all the latest toys is more complicated than one without. And there's no question that managing all those things is more complicated than not. It's just that some people believe they are 'good' at managing those things, so they think they don't need to simplify. They might believe they are living more simply compared to the life the had on land, and they are.. but that doesn't mean they are 'living simply' in a general sense.

I'd go as far to say that if you are not actively simplifying your boat, and your life, then you are not living simply. Unless you've been doing it for years and are completely satisfied with the results, there's always something else left to be simplified.

It's almost the exact opposite of what is 'normal'. On a normal cruising boat, there's always something that needs to be better, or bigger, or nicer, or added. On a simple boat, there's always something something that needs to go away, or reduced, or 'maintained' rather than upgraded, or made 'simpler' etc...

It's a frame of mind, which is relative, but that is not the entirety of it. I know land-based people that believe they are living a simple life. Take care of the kids, keep the job, pay the mortgage, and life is simple... right? Yet these same people are far more stressed then they would ever admit, they are caught in cycles they don't recognize, they still trying to keep up with the jones, and they are running the same rat race as everyone else.

So just because they think their life is simple, is it? I think they're freakin delusional myself. I know I was back then...
__________________
My Blog
callmecrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 20:14   #268
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Yep. I never saw sailors / cruisers as different in any way from the land crowd. We are using a different way of moving about, that's all.

But I can tell you that some, and more than a few, of my sailing friends who have boats with many bells and whistles they swear (sure, maybe they only strike a pose) that they hate the complexity of their boats. Somehow they never complain about complexity of their apartments.

So maybe there is something in sailing that makes one drift towards the 'less is better' attitude.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 20:27   #269
Registered User
 
Doodles's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Virginia, USA & Krabi, Thailand
Boat: Wauquiez Pretorien 35; Nordica 16
Posts: 2,810
Images: 1
Sure it's all relative, otherwise we would all have to be meditating on a mountain top to be really living the simple life.
__________________
Mundis Ex Igne Factus Est
Doodles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2012, 20:35   #270
Registered User
 
callmecrazy's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Boat: Tartan 30
Posts: 1,548
Images: 1
Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doodles View Post
Sure it's all relative, otherwise we would all have to be meditating on a mountain top to be really living the simple life.
Exactly.

It's an active process. If you're not simplifying, then you're not really living it.

Don't get me wrong. I understand that there is a certain amount of gadgetry that has to go into boating, and there's a no real way to be completely self sufficient on a boat. I'm just saying, I don't think it's relative just because somebody with a soda fountain, watermaker, electric toilets, twin engines, radars, etc.. etc.. thinks they have a simple boat.
They do not. Just because they think they do, doesn't make it 'relative'. It makes them incorrect, or more accurately, delusional
__________________

__________________
My Blog
callmecrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sailing

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:30.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.