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Old 07-04-2012, 08:00   #211
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post
Pelagic- don't confuse simple with lazy. When I am living on board I have things to do all day. My life is busy, but its not complicated.
I like Hud3's answer to what he does all day: "I don't know but it takes all day to do it." My to do list never seems to get shorter. Always seems to be an emergent task being added to the top of the list. Lucky me! I get great pleasure in accomplishing small things.

Simple lifestyle? Or just simple-minded?

As Zorba said along these lines: My head and hands do the work, who the hell am I to choose?
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Old 07-04-2012, 08:12   #212
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One of the principles that is driving me to "run away to the sea" is the idea of cessation. I want to stop contributing to systems and actions that I don't support. I don't have the personal fortitude to not be part of the problem (as I define the problem) while living here in a rich, northern country. The seductions are too strong, but more than that, the systems around me make it virtual impossible to not be part of it all. So I am choosing to stop.
Isn't there some irony in the fact that you are "using" that complicated society in order to fund/prepare for your escape? Without economies, manufacturing, science, the oil industry (to make resins) etc., etc. etc... You couldn't "do" it in the manner in which we do it today.

To "really" go simple doesn't one then have to follow the traditional ways in a wooden boat.

I am reminded of the reddit meme, First World Problems. My sister is quite destitute, yet she scared up funds to fly from Melbourne to the US to investigate a convent she wants to join. The crazy part was they didnt have the laptop she was planning to buy in stock at Best Buy so she was disappointed in the trip.

First world problems indeed...
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Old 07-04-2012, 08:18   #213
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The guy who wrote that script did not sound like a lot of a sailor: dried fish and coconut???

This would be yuck!

Dried fish I can live on, but why mix it up with coconut?

OMG

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There are many Asian recipes involving coconut and coconut milk mixed with Fish. Many Thai soups start with a coconut soup base, spiced with Lemongrass, chile and then prawns, chicken or fish is added.

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Old 07-04-2012, 08:24   #214
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Isn't there some irony in the fact that you are "using" that complicated society in order to fund/prepare for your escape? Without economies, manufacturing, science, the oil industry (to make resins) etc., etc. etc... You couldn't "do" it in the manner in which we do it today.
Wood boat - pah! That's a high-tech wonder compared to the floating rafts of the Polynesians-of-old.

You're absolutely right. Guilty as charged. I'm as hypocritical as it comes. But there's no logical end to your absolutely accurate criticism Ex. Is that a reason to simply roll over and accept things? I used to live in such absolutes. Now I've come to accept that there is a middle ground; that I can still do something without having to be perfect.
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Old 07-04-2012, 08:30   #215
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Wood boat - pah! That's a high-tech wonder compared to the floating rafts of the Polynesians-of-old.

You're absolutely right. Guilty as charged. I'm as hypocritical as it comes. But there's no logical end to your absolutely accurate criticism Ex. Is that a reason to simply roll over and accept things? I used to live in such absolutes. Now I've come to accept that there is a middle ground; that I can still do something without having to be perfect.
The question is how big or small a carbon foot print do you want to make? Sounds like you are aiming for smaller. A good thing! :-)
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Old 07-04-2012, 08:33   #216
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Wood boat - pah! That's a high-tech wonder compared to the floating rafts of the Polynesians-of-old.

You're absolutely right. Guilty as charged. I'm as hypocritical as it comes. But there's no logical end to your absolutely accurate criticism Ex. Is that a reason to simply roll over and accept things? I used to live in such absolutes. Now I've come to accept that there is a middle ground; that I can still do something without having to be perfect.

Yeah, yeah, yeah: it was good enough for Capt Slocum, here's your own Spray, Mike.
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Old 07-04-2012, 08:34   #217
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

When you buy used, are you still contributing to the carbon footprint caused by manufacturing? Or are you recycling and thus reducing?
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Old 07-04-2012, 08:38   #218
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Screw carbon footprint! Let's talk carbon fiber. The world's going to hell anyway.
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Old 07-04-2012, 09:13   #219
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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When you buy used, are you still contributing to the carbon footprint caused by manufacturing? Or are you recycling and thus reducing?
I think there is some logic to this. Keeping an old classic plastic going 30-40 years after it was made has to be better for the world than buying new. The whole carbon footprint thing gets a bit distorted after a while though. The only time I have a carbon footprint is after I have been digging coal.
BTW- did I really call myself lazy? Must have been a Freudian Slip.
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Old 07-04-2012, 14:39   #220
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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The question is how big or small a carbon foot print do you want to make? Sounds like you are aiming for smaller. A good thing! :-)
Yes, that's part of it Doodles, but I'm approaching this more broadly than just the environmental concerns (which are important). It's all inter-related, but mainly I want to remove myself from a society than can only find value when there are $ signs involved.
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Old 07-04-2012, 16:59   #221
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Yes, that's part of it Doodles, but I'm approaching this more broadly than just the environmental concerns (which are important). It's all inter-related, but mainly I want to remove myself from a society than can only find value when there are $ signs involved.
Good for you. That's probably part of the reason I'm in rural Thailand, but it's even getting too material here. All the "face saving" stuff in the culture seems just another form of materialism too me (image is everything ... wasn't that a Canon commercial?) and the amount of plastic and electronic trash would disgust you. I'm not sure its really possible to "get away" anymore ... kind of reminds me of that saying, "wherever you go, there you are."
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Old 07-04-2012, 17:23   #222
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Good for you. That's probably part of the reason I'm in rural Thailand, but it's even getting too material here. All the "face saving" stuff in the culture seems just another form of materialism too me (image is everything ... wasn't that a Canon commercial?) and the amount of plastic and electronic trash would disgust you. I'm not sure its really possible to "get away" anymore ... kind of reminds me of that saying, "wherever you go, there you are."
Good memory, it was Canon and they used pro tennis player Andrei Agassi to do the pitching. Agassi has gone on to drop that image, founded, funded, and continues to run a school for under privileged kids in Las Vegas and the school probably has the best record of success of any privately funded prep school.
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Old 07-04-2012, 17:23   #223
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

I noticed it is "easier" to lead a simple life in places that are highly civilised. In such places most of my footprint gets painlessly externalised. Energy? No issue. Waste? No issue.

In remote areas my footprint becomes immediately and tangibly visible.

I hated that horrible stench in some Polynesian 'pristine' locations. I know places that are not labeled pristine, with much higher density and with much lower pollution.

Not to criticize any rural Pacific culture. That's the way they are. It is us who are in the lucky position of being capable of building sewage treatment facilities. It is also us who have the awareness of the need for such facilities.

Sad facts but big lessons on how to act and what to preach back home.

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Old 07-04-2012, 17:42   #224
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Good for you. That's probably part of the reason I'm in rural Thailand, but it's even getting too material here. All the "face saving" stuff in the culture seems just another form of materialism too me (image is everything ... wasn't that a Canon commercial?) and the amount of plastic and electronic trash would disgust you. I'm not sure its really possible to "get away" anymore ... kind of reminds me of that saying, "wherever you go, there you are."
I know you're right Doodles, but I figure there are things I can do that get me closer to doing what's right for me -- even if they don't really matter in the big picture .

Interesting observation about the whole "saving face" thing, and how its related to materialism. I'll have to think about this. Thanks!
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Old 07-04-2012, 18:14   #225
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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I know you're right Doodles, but I figure there are things I can do that get me closer to doing what's right for me -- even if they don't really matter in the big picture .

Interesting observation about the whole "saving face" thing, and how its related to materialism. I'll have to think about this. Thanks!
Sorry, didn't mean to imply negatively. I think we each can only do what's right for us and its all good ... whatever the "big picture" is.

Not to get too off track and beat up on another culture, but the "face saving" really pisses me off sometimes. I hate throwing stuff in the landfill that can easily be repaired or recycled in some fashion, but here nobody, even common villagers, will repair or even buy used. I can't even give away things I could easily sell in the US because it "looks" poor to buy used or repair/maintain what you have. It's crazy and buys right into the Western materialism even worse. Today, I'm taking part in a beach clean-up organized by an Italian restaurant owner and I can assure you (we've done this before) that 75% of the people who show up will be ex-pats or tourists, very few locals.

I don't even want to get started on what they have done to Phuket or that beautiful island Ko Pi Pi. And it's not mostly the tourist, it's the locals.
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