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Old 05-04-2012, 21:17   #166
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

I don't know for sure, but I think this guy is baiting us

Freedom just another word for nothing left to loose (or get rid of )

I also thinking of combining my heater with my stove- anybody doing that?
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Old 05-04-2012, 21:30   #167
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Since you guys did the screenshots, I will have to comply. This is a closeup of our marina in Bellingham. My boat is in the middle pier, last one on the right on the bottom side. The yacht right next to me is an excharter Bendy with 5 bedrooms.
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Old 05-04-2012, 21:31   #168
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

No I'm not trying to bait anyone, just chucking my 2 cents in.
I read this whole thread from start to finish. With my sarcasm above aside, we genuinely strive for simplicity in our lifestyle and perspective rather than just in our sailing habits or boat.

To put it another way for us it is more about being able to sail to an small remote bay off an island and to be able to enjoy each other's company and the surroundings without distraction/obstruction or unnecessary hassle, expense or complication.

So we have refrigeration, because it is basic by design and costs us little. I know how to fix it if it plays up, and it does mean that we can catch fish, buy meat when available and have a cold sundowner after a snorkel and a swim. If it was expensive, complicated and a pain in the butt it would go, but to disconnect it and start buying tinned tuna so I could beat my chest and claim to be a minimalist sailor seems self defeating. There was a time, about 20 years ago when there was a legitimate debate about marine refrigeration, however it is 2012 and we are happy to be enjoying a cold drink

I think if you are trying to appear minimalist and simple for the sake of telling people you are minimalist and simple you are already back in a societal trap or worrying about what other people think.
We just try and do the best we can by the environment and the planet and our budget. We sail as much as we can and try not to motor unless necessary. We have simple systems on our boat, and cruising is for us all about the places we go, not bringing our land lives along with us. We don't have endless gadgets, but when something does become affordable and has a recognisable safety benefit I see no shame welcoming it aboard. GPS is one such technology that has become affordable and is clearly beneficial to the cruising sailor.
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Old 05-04-2012, 22:40   #169
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

[QUOTE=s/v Beth;923612]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Agreed, there is a lot of 6-beer-talk going on here . But isn't that the joy of a life examined? .[/QUOTE

I agree with you mike. If you can't look at your life and see some logic and morality to it why live it that way?
To put it our terms, I cannot be a piece of driftwood driven by the winds of society. I have to be sailed were I think is best. Sometimes I'm in sinc with those around, but most times I am not. Makes for a lot of lonely anchorages, but it is the only way to go.
I guess the big benifit is that after awhile my crew realises that they really are in control, and that the're peer group is not. That realization is worth the price of boat alone.
Terrific words Newt, we all seek truth in one way or another and what could be more important than to find out some truths about ourselves.

I think one of the biggest attractions to sailing is that the inherent dynamics of boat, sea, weather and close living quarters, strips away any falsehoods about your person and promotes honesty.

Unless you are mostly into racing or dockside parties, sailing to remote anchorages is all about developing those truths with the ones you are closest to.

Definitely worth the price of the boat and the challenges of taking her there....
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Old 05-04-2012, 22:52   #170
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

I think I have to agree with Pelagic (and his earlier comments).

I'm pretty sure that if I won the lottery, or whatever, I would buy a really big, really nice, sailboat. But, I don't think it would change the way I feel about travelling, living simply (relatively speaking), sailing, and enjoying life's little pleasures.

In the grand scheme of things, it's all about how we feel, not what we have. To that end, it doesn't really matter if it's a 20 foot sailboat, or a 30K square foot mansion....

I can only say that my philosophy on life has changed over the years, and it has led me to sailing. But, whether that has anything to do with sailing on a budget or not is only relevant because of my financial situation.

(edit) And I equate sailing on a budget to sailing 'simply' because I can't imagine worrying about 'gadgets' and things if I had plenty of money to Not worry about them. I think i'd still practice old-skool ways just because, but only for practice, not out of necessity...
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Old 06-04-2012, 06:31   #171
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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No I'm not trying to bait anyone, just chucking my 2 cents in.
I read this whole thread from start to finish. With my sarcasm above aside, we genuinely strive for simplicity in our lifestyle and perspective rather than just in our sailing habits or boat.
Ah geeze Chall, I assumed you were using satire to make the point. Don't tell me you actually worry about linking your iPhone to your bow thruster ... please, let it not be so .

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So we have refrigeration, because it is basic by design and costs us little ... I think if you are trying to appear minimalist and simple for the sake of telling people you are minimalist and simple you are already back in a societal trap or worrying about what other people think.
Why does this always happen? Some people start talking about living simply on a boat, and immediately we're into a fridge debate. No where on this thread (that I can recall) did anyway say fridge = complicated = bad. Same for GPS, pressure water, or bow thrusters. You don't have to defend your choices here. The point is to share thoughts, philosophies, and yes, even practical ideas, about living simply and inexpensively. If you can do this with a fridge, then great. But please don't feel you have to run other people down who might disagree, or chose to do things a different way.
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Old 06-04-2012, 06:42   #172
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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I think one of the biggest attractions to sailing is that the inherent dynamics of boat, sea, weather and close living quarters, strips away any falsehoods about your person and promotes honesty.

Unless you are mostly into racing or dockside parties, sailing to remote anchorages is all about developing those truths with the ones you are closest to.
Beautifully said Pelagic. Like any wilderness, the sea demands your respect, your humility and your attention. I love wilderness travel because of the simplicity it forces on me. It clears away the distractions of life, and brings into focus what is truly real.
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Old 06-04-2012, 06:46   #173
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Why does this always happen? Some people start talking about living simply on a boat, and immediately we're into a fridge debate. No where on this thread (that I can recall) did anyway say fridge = complicated = bad. Same for GPS, pressure water, or bow thrusters. You don't have to defend your choices here. The point is to share thoughts, philosophies, and yes, even practical ideas, about living simply and inexpensively. If you can do this with a fridge, then great. But please don't feel you have to run other people down who might disagree, or chose to do things a different way.
Earlier in the thread a few posts did indeed question having refrigeration, and getting by eating canned food( Yes I did read through the entire thread).

A few years ago when I decided to start cruising, and wished to do so simply and inexpensively I too figured this would mean no refrigeration. In fact it was the first thing I worried about. I guess the 'fridge debate' comes up because it is of relevance and interest to those wishing to cruise simply, it did for us and that's why I used it as an example.

I do not feel and don't believe I have 'ran other's down' who disagree with what I do and apologise if you perceived that to be the case.
Nor am I in the habit of defending what I do to anyone but did in fact hope to share here what we have found works for us. What I shared is just that, nothing more nothing less. Cruising simply does obviously mean different things to different people, and thats what makes it an interesting discussion. I have friends on big boats with lots of gadgets, and friends on small boats with none, I am critical of neither approach necessarily, and for what it's worth we probably sit somewhere right in the middle.
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Old 06-04-2012, 06:49   #174
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

For several months I had a link between my iphone and the bowthruster. It was absolutely brilliant and meant that for a while there I could steer around coral heads while sitting on the spreaders. Not only a high utility factor but a super high cool factor too.

Trouble was some call centre in Pakistan got hold of my number and the boat started going sideways at inopportune moments. As a result of a rapidly diminishing cool factor plus a few dents in the hull I decided to toss the iphone.

Sigh !
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:05   #175
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Ok so when do all you guys get enough time to ponder this philosophy of sailing????

I'm too busy servicing my Genset, cleaning the filters in my Watermaker, and trying to get the new Chartplotter to talk to the fridge and icemaker. I also don't seem to be able to operate the Bow thruster from my iphone 4 since I upgraded the firmware, any suggestions?? I guess I could just use my Ipad instead, but it is only an Ipad 2, and that is sooooooo 2011. Besides how would I be able to update my Facebook Status as I leave the Marina if I use the Ipad? I guess I could do that off of one of the Laptops, but then I wouldn't be able to watch Ellen while on Watch or update my blog. Hey does anyone know what Ebay delivery times are like to Chagos??

Yeah we are really living the Freedom dream
I was ignoring this thread and all that simplicity stuff but now you got me interested. Got to look it up but I'm quite sure you can just tether your iPhone to the Ipad and update your Facebook status but why ... surely you've got the FB app on your iPhone? Mine's right next to the CF app.

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Beautifully said Pelagic. Like any wilderness, the sea demands your respect, your humility and your attention. I love wilderness travel because of the simplicity it forces on me. It clears away the distractions of life, and brings into focus what is truly real.
If I clear away all the distractions ...... hey, aren't they real life too?
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:07   #176
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Yep. Know thyself.

A person who likes things to be simple will only ask for and use whatever serves their likes. Given too much, they will simplify to the point of perceived happiness.

A person who likes excess will only be pleased with ALL the toys and whistles. Given too little, they will build up the stock to the point of perceived happiness.

As long as each knows what they want, they are pretty likely to find it.

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Old 06-04-2012, 07:19   #177
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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I was ignoring this thread and all that simplicity stuff but now you got me interested. Got to look it up but I'm quite sure you can just tether your iPhone to the Ipad and update your Facebook status but why ... surely you've got the FB app on your iPhone? Mine's right next to the CF app. d:
I must confess I have both the facebook app and CF app on my Iphone Yet I am also happy to turn the silly thing off for weeks when in range if we are cruising. Does that make me simple and minimalist? Or western and indulgent? A slave or free???
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:31   #178
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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I must confess I have both the facebook app and CF app on my Iphone Yet I am also happy to turn the silly thing off for weeks when in range if we are cruising. Does that make me simple and minimalist? Or western and indulgent? A slave or free???
Maybe you have commitment issues?
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Old 06-04-2012, 07:58   #179
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

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Yep. Know thyself.

A person who likes things to be simple will only ask for and use whatever serves their likes. Given too much, they will simplify to the point of perceived happiness.

A person who likes excess will only be pleased with ALL the toys and whistles. Given too little, they will build up the stock to the point of perceived happiness.
Actually, there is a growing body of research that orbits around this question of happiness. So far, the research indicates that, on the question of choice, too much is as bad as too little. It also indicates that the old adage: "you can't buy happiness", is quite true. Wealth, and the accumulation of stuff, seems to give only a short-term boost to one's happiness levels. After a short time the levels come back down. So acquiring more stuff does not lead to improved happiness, but it might explain our consumerist culture's chase for the next stuff-fix. (BTW, the reverse is also true. Losing stuff causes a short-term dip, after which happiness levels return to where they were before).

As actual "happiness" goes, the research is showing that it really doesn't much matter what happens in your life, one's "happiness level" is already set by the time you are an adult. Once basic needs are met (food, personal security, shelter, friends, etc.), your happiness levels will likely remain more or less the same, whether you are rich or poor, disabled or fully capable, or yes, whether you have a fridge or live on dried veggies .
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Old 06-04-2012, 08:06   #180
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Re: The Philosophy behind Sailing Simply and cheaply

Hmmm. Ok but hey you can't put dried veggies in a rum and coke. Just sayin'.
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