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Old 05-06-2014, 13:05   #46
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Re: The "Other" Cruisers

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
It's in Europe and it has waterways. Many of the blogs I've found of people running the waterways have done both and don't differentiate unless they are discussing a paticular area.

Why exactly would I "need" a mast to get across a shipping lane. Unlike monohulls, cats don't suffer stability issues when you remove the mast. We've had wave breaking over the bows going down the mississippi and other than worrying about the mast breaking free, I don't see how having the mast up would have made much difference.


We've motored thru NY harbor which is pretty darn busy. The mast was up but I wasn't about to mess around tacking in front of ships and ferries just to say I sailed it.

Am I missing something?
In Britain when we talk of European waterways, its in Europe. France, Germany etc...

I have sailed in a 30 foot Cat with the mast removed in the North sea (Used for the Norfolk Broads) and found it to be singularly uncomfortable. Having being designed with a mast and for a mast, It was my opinion that the wave action is dampened by cloth and the mast being present. It reminded me of the small 17 foot pontoon boats we used for fishing. Your experience may differ.
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Old 05-06-2014, 13:10   #47
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Re: The "Other" Cruisers

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Old 05-06-2014, 13:13   #48
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Re: The "Other" Cruisers

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
It's in Europe and it has waterways. Many of the blogs I've found of people running the waterways have done both and don't differentiate unless they are discussing a paticular area.

Why exactly would I "need" a mast to get across a shipping lane. Unlike monohulls, cats don't suffer stability issues when you remove the mast. We've had wave breaking over the bows going down the mississippi and other than worrying about the mast breaking free, I don't see how having the mast up would have made much difference.


We've motored thru NY harbor which is pretty darn busy. The mast was up but I wasn't about to mess around tacking in front of ships and ferries just to say I sailed it.

Am I missing something?
One hardly knows where to start with this

Sailing across New York Harbor is -- shall we say -- a little different from getting 60 to 120 miles across the English Channel in a stiff Westerly wind, dodging ships the whole way. You can motor it, of course, if you have the tankage, but it's much, much more fun under sail.

As to being in Europe -- that's a big debate at the moment . Great Britain is an island. Off Europe, probably, more than in it.
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Old 05-06-2014, 13:42   #49
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Re: The "Other" Cruisers

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While I was in Europe, I saw these and wished I felt I could talk the wife onto one, but o well, maybe some other wife, or life.
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Old 05-06-2014, 14:17   #50
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Re: The "Other" Cruisers

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One hardly knows where to start with this

Sailing across New York Harbor is -- shall we say -- a little different from getting 60 to 120 miles across the English Channel in a stiff Westerly wind, dodging ships the whole way. You can motor it, of course, if you have the tankage, but it's much, much more fun under sail.

As to being in Europe -- that's a big debate at the moment . Great Britain is an island. Off Europe, probably, more than in it.
Got around 350mile range and have done a few jumps in the 70-100 mile range mostly under power (could do more but we prefer leasurely short days of travel). When we've had the mast down the motion is not significantly different, so I'm still not seeing how it makes any difference on our ability to cross the channel. Maybe we just got lucky with a good boat.

Grew up boating around big boats on the St. Clair River where there isn't a lot of room to play with and been thru many busy shipping areas since then. The big boys deserve respect but every time someone has gone on about how horrible it is with a busy shipping area, I come away underwhelmed after going thru the area (knock on wood).

Since we plan to spend 60-80% of our time wandering the inland waterways of the land masses east of NY but well past Bermuda (does that cover it generically enough?), I'll pass on the purity of sailing for the convienence of getting the mast out of the way.

Good fun watching europeans trying to figure out if they are a single country or many.
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Old 05-06-2014, 14:27   #51
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Re: The "Other" Cruisers

brits know the answer.
The Europeans dont .
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Old 05-06-2014, 14:39   #52
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Re: The "Other" Cruisers

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
Got around 350mile range and have done a few jumps in the 70-100 mile range mostly under power (could do more but we prefer leasurely short days of travel). When we've had the mast down the motion is not significantly different, so I'm still not seeing how it makes any difference on our ability to cross the channel. Maybe we just got lucky with a good boat.

Grew up boating around big boats on the St. Clair River where there isn't a lot of room to play with and been thru many busy shipping areas since then. The big boys deserve respect but every time someone has gone on about how horrible it is with a busy shipping area, I come away underwhelmed after going thru the area (knock on wood).

. . .
Sail a bit in the Channel and then revisit this question

Different traffic volume, different sea state, than what you're used to.

Of course you'll make it with the mast down, but you'll wish you'd had it up

It's a fascinating and beautiful area, so however you choose to move your boat, you'll enjoy it.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0117a.jpg
Views:	95
Size:	402.5 KB
ID:	82558

One anchorage in the English Channel, just a day's sail from Southampton. Yes, that's my boat.
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Old 05-06-2014, 14:41   #53
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Re: The "Other" Cruisers

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Sail a bit in the Channel and then revisit this question

Different traffic volume, different sea state, than what you're used to.

Of course you'll make it with the mast down, but you'll wish you'd had it up

It's a fascinating and beautiful area, so however you choose to move your boat, you'll enjoy it.

Attachment 82558

One anchorage in the English Channel, just a day's sail from Southampton. Yes, that's my boat.
Hey! Why have you got yer mast up?
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Old 05-06-2014, 14:54   #54
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Re: The "Other" Cruisers

OMG!!!!! wtf is THAT? (looking at original pic)
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Old 05-06-2014, 15:11   #55
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Re: The "Other" Cruisers

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OMG!!!!! wtf is THAT? (looking at original pic)
Are you talking about my pic?

That's the South coast of England

The part of it called the Jurassic Coast. Dramatic cliffs, wild nature, ancient ports where you can tie up to the quay wall. One of the most beautiful coasts I have ever seen.

The French shore of the Channel (La Manche, as they call it) -- Normandy, North Brittany -- is also extraordinarily pretty.
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Old 05-06-2014, 15:19   #56
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Re: The "Other" Cruisers

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Sail a bit in the Channel and then revisit this question

Different traffic volume, different sea state, than what you're used to.

Of course you'll make it with the mast down, but you'll wish you'd had it up

It's a fascinating and beautiful area, so however you choose to move your boat, you'll enjoy it.

Attachment 82558

One anchorage in the English Channel, just a day's sail from Southampton. Yes, that's my boat.
That's the plan. We'll report back but it won't be for a bit as we don't plan to ship her across until next fall.

Of course we heard similar issues with Chicago, St. Louis, Mobile, Miami, Charleston, Portsmouth, Baltimore, NY, etc... They are all something different but mostly it was the local guys trying to work you up.

The most impressive situation dealing with shipping traffic we have come across was coming around a bend on the Mississippi and a tow was coming up stream in a narrow rocky section below St. Louis. I'm sure there is a limit but it sure seems like they strap together as many barges as the captain thinks he can handle. This was 7 long and 6 wide (200' wide by 1400' long) plus a big tow boat so overall around 1600' long. The channel is narrow so there is no way to stay away. There are standing waves on the river due to the current being squeezed and the prop wash on the tow boat is surging higher than his second story deck as he fought up against the current. He's sliding sideways to make it around the corner taking up nearly the entire width of the river. The first wake to hit us was easily 6' with a vertical face. We had already done 500 miles with the mast down and thought is was plenty secure but I was afraid it was going to sweep the deck clear. After several more wakes gradually declining, it was easily a couple mile before things settled down to mearly uncomfortable and then next tow came into view.

It will be interesting to see how the channel compares.
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Old 05-06-2014, 15:22   #57
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Re: The "Other" Cruisers

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It will be interesting to see how the channel compares.
Ok
once more for emphasis......

THE busiest shipping lanes in the world.
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Old 05-06-2014, 16:16   #58
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Re: The "Other" Cruisers

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- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
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Old 05-06-2014, 16:19   #59
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Re: The "Other" Cruisers

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- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
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Old 05-06-2014, 17:09   #60
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Re: The "Other" Cruisers

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While I was in Europe, I saw these and wished I felt I could talk the wife onto one, but o well, maybe some other wife, or life.
Before it occurred to me chartering a boat in Canada saved the cost of a flight to Europe we did 3 of these: Alscace, Burgundy and Bordeaux. Talk the wife into it. If you have any appreciation for wine or baguettes or just want to see old, old churches then you must talk the wife into it...
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