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Old 21-10-2013, 06:43   #76
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

wow, whatever this trash is made of, we should make sails from the same thing.
just think sails that last 100's of years in the sun.
or, perhaps they overstate the life cycle of plastic.

you say its in the food? when was the last time you went fishing with a plastic lure and just left it floating on the surface? fish, like us, know what they are eating. they have taste buds. and if lures didnt have a hook, the bait would be spat out quite fast.
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Old 21-10-2013, 06:57   #77
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Originally Posted by scoobert View Post
wow, whatever this trash is made of, we should make sails from the same thing. just think sails that last 100's of years in the sun. or, perhaps they overstate the life cycle of plastic. you say its in the food? when was the last time you went fishing with a plastic lure and just left it floating on the surface? fish, like us, know what they are eating. they have taste buds. and if lures didnt have a hook, the bait would be spat out quite fast.
You're missing the micro plastic part. Look at a blue tarp, as It break down there are small particles everywhere. They're easy to consume mixed with other stuff. It's not the big pieces that are causing the immediate problems.
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Old 21-10-2013, 07:00   #78
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

the micro part will break down just as fast. the rate is constant. i do not have exact numbers, but the rate it quite fast.
the next begged question is it stays in the fish. can a fish's body break down the plastic and send it to muscle or fat? we can't even digest corn, and you think a fish can digest plastic?
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Old 21-10-2013, 07:12   #79
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Once you've seen the extent of plastic on foreign shores or floating offshore you may change your tune. I think it's disgusting, you may like to be surrounded by our plastic refuse, I do not.
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Old 21-10-2013, 07:39   #80
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

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the micro part will break down just as fast. the rate is constant.
Do you have a reference on that? I would have expected the breakdown rate to accelerate as the size got smaller due to the higher percentage of exposed surface area per mass.

The same way that a piece of paper catches fire more easily than a log, I would expect smaller pieces of plastic to degrade more easily. I don't know this to be true. I am hoping to find out.
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Old 21-10-2013, 08:36   #81
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

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Originally Posted by Paul Elliott View Post
The answer is "not much garbage" (per volume of ocean). I've sailed and motored through the Garbage Patch region many times and the trash there is dispersed to the point where you may not see anything visible for miles. Even in the occasional areas of higher concentration you might see ten or twenty chunks per hour. You do see plentiful marine life though, including millions of jellyfish. Any scooping or straining operation would have to trap and kill huge amounts of sealife in order to reclaim a few pounds of debris (including the sub-surface plastic "nurdules").


The last time I transited this region was summer of 2012, and my crew included two NOAA researchers who were performing a debris survey.

I believe that there is no way to realistically clean up the debris once it's in the Gyre. Even if you could manage to screen out the junk without an unacceptable marine life by-catch, the fuel needed and resources expended to do this would be excessive. I've seen plans to "harvest" the plastic debris and convert it to fuel on the vessel, in an effort to make the collection process self-sufficient. This is a ridiculously flawed idea, again due to the low trash density and the marine-life by-catch.

Stop the trash at the source, either by recycling, or not creating it in the first place.
All through this thread, I'm wondering what the Ocean floor looks like after all these years of the polluting.

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the micro part will break down just as fast. the rate is constant. i do not have exact numbers, but the rate it quite fast.
Break down into what? Please explain.
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Old 21-10-2013, 08:52   #82
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

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Once you've seen the extent of plastic on foreign shores or floating offshore you may change your tune. I think it's disgusting, you may like to be surrounded by our plastic refuse, I do not.
I have driven thru Mexico(a lot of it) and I have seen Gov. fences along parts of the hwy and you cant even see the fence as it is covered in carbon bags(plastic bags you get at a store when you buy a candy bar etc.),a ten mile strech ,covered from top to the ground ...The fence is what collects them as they blow like tumble weeds in the wind ,makes me sick to think about it!..
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Old 21-10-2013, 11:51   #83
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I have driven thru Mexico(a lot of it) and I have seen Gov. fences along parts of the hwy and you cant even see the fence as it is covered in carbon bags(plastic bags you get at a store when you buy a candy bar etc.),a ten mile strech ,covered from top to the ground ...The fence is what collects them as they blow like tumble weeds in the wind ,makes me sick to think about it!..
Habits can be changed. plastic bags were a real problem in the hedgerows in Ireland. They brought in a ( 20 cent charge ) small tax, plastic bag usage dropped dramatically , many supermarkets don't even offer them anymore , I noticed the same system in Portugal recently.

Hit people in the pocket and they change habits soon enough.

Dave
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Old 21-10-2013, 12:18   #84
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

Plastic shopping bags has been a curse on the planet. There are parts of Asia that I've seen where the surf was all plastic, and no one does anything about it.

There's not much we can do until the third world, and others, starts taking responsibility. And that should be the goal. Some societies are born and raised in garbage/poverty. Until that changes very little can be done to eradicate the problem.








As for tsunami's, not much we can do to prevent that. Time is the healer, just like at Mt. St. Helens.
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Old 21-10-2013, 13:19   #85
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

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Pointing out an error isn't usually considered quibbling.

You obviously read my other posts in which I clearly stated I agreed and gave my experience on the subject. Going out of your way to call my point quibbling make you feel better? Go-o-o-d.
You didn't point out an error.

The article gave an annual total and a weekly minimum ("at least"). You made an error when you surmised the total wasn't logical given the weekly minimum. You made a faulty assumption that the minimum was an average.
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Old 21-10-2013, 17:29   #86
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Question 'The Broken Ocean'?

An extremely interesting yachting article published in the Newcastle Herald (Australia). I can see it initiating a number of worthwhile discussions,


The ocean is broken | Newcastle Herald
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Old 21-10-2013, 17:30   #87
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Re: 'The Broken Ocean'?

Been posted already
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Old 21-10-2013, 17:51   #88
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tropicalescape View Post
I have driven thru Mexico(a lot of it) and I have seen Gov. fences along parts of the hwy and you cant even see the fence as it is covered in carbon bags(plastic bags you get at a store when you buy a candy bar etc.),a ten mile strech ,covered from top to the ground ...The fence is what collects them as they blow like tumble weeds in the wind ,makes me sick to think about it!..
I always said the Mexican flag design should be of a Seguaro cactus with a plastic bag stuck on one of its arms.

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Old 21-10-2013, 19:07   #89
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Maybe it's worth worrying about microplastics, when we actually know that there's anything to worry about?
This might be a better source about microplastics: Polymers Are Forever | Orion Magazine
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Old 23-10-2013, 04:33   #90
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

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This might be a better source about microplastics: Polymers Are Forever | Orion Magazine
Thanks and aaaarrrgh !

From what i understand most plastics (not the new truly biodegradable ones) leach either BPA or in the case of BPA free, Antimony (an element which causes similar effects as lead on organisms) into the surrounding water.

What has been laughably called "biodegradable" plastics up until now just break into smaller segments with sun and oxygen and over ~50-300 years still leaching chemicals will dissolve

I've said it before to my family "we have to become near zero plastic users", but to be honest we might have lowered but it seems near impossible.

IMO the solution requires a change of industry, even a glass bottle of bubbles with cork and wire has a plastic coated foil and ring on it What, can i only drink what i can grow and ferment !! ouch.

So perhaps science can come to the rescue and money spent on alternatives that you can put on your veggie patch are the real road to a better future.
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