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Old 20-10-2013, 13:45   #46
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

Anyone got any brains? my suger is getting low, i need brains...
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Old 20-10-2013, 13:47   #47
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

How about this? A redistribution of the earths population?
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Old 20-10-2013, 13:48   #48
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

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How about this? A redistribution of the earths population?
Whom to where?
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Old 20-10-2013, 13:48   #49
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

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Originally Posted by unbusted67 View Post
There are too many people on the planet, wasting too much energy, consuming too many resources.

If you don't see it you are blind. I've been traveling for almost two years now. Every where you go: People. People driving cars, people eating food, people throwing out their easily recycled plastic, people trashing and harassing animals.

People who refute overpopulation and pollution have a myopic world view or are generally not well traveled. They think somewhere out there there are vast stretches of untouched wilderness where animals have a place to be animals without harassment or influence from humans. Its just not true.

You want proof? Look at a population map. It is impossible for there to be that many humans and for them not to have an impact on the ocean, climate, and animal species.

Stop having babies. It is a selfish act.
I've been saying this for years. My 1st wife and I decided on only one child because of this. When you look at all of humanities sufferings and problems, it comes down to population.
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Old 20-10-2013, 13:48   #50
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

Quote:
Rwanda promotes vasectomies. Government encourages men to be sterilised for birth control in one of Africa's most densely populated countries.
Along the lines of recent posts. Perhaps we should be doing this in NA and Europe as well?
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Old 20-10-2013, 13:53   #51
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

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Its called begging the question, and PURE SPECULATION.
And this is my point - there is no good in bringing bad science to either side of the argument.

The claim made by article was that a vast swathe of the Pacific had been rendered unsafe to navigate in a small boat. I find this hard to believe. The other claim was that the number of fish across the Pacific has crashed to virtually zero within the last ten years - which again is hard to believe.

I don't disagree at all with the sentiment behind the article - that ocean pollution and overfishing are doing enormous damage. I'm just not sure that the best way of making people worry about it as much as I do is by making sensational claims which stretch the bounds of credibility.

There is very little that could have been done about preventing the spill of debris from the tsunami, as it was an event unprecedented in recorded history. As for ocean pollution in general, it is caused by people who don't give a s--t, the same people who throw their rubbish in to a hedgerow rather than taking it home, or put it in a general bin when there's a recycling bin right next to it. People who do give a s--t have no reason to feel guilty about what these people do, although the better ones often try to clean up after them.

Overfishing? That's because there are too many people. Not a problem exclusive to the third or first world, but one which applies to humanity in general. Something I don't feel guilty about, because I don't spend my time breeding. I do get a bit annoyed by people telling me that I should stop eating seafood, especially if the people have a big family. This isn't a problem caused by my excessive consumption - I only have one mouth and I'm a thin person. It's a problem caused by people who refuse to quit rutting.

It was my reluctant conclusion a while ago that the Earth is only going to become a worse place to live during my lifetime, probably substantially so. I do my very best to ensure my personal choices aren't the reason for it, and when I can I spare some time to try to undo damage other people have done. That is all I can do. Feeling guilt over the actions of others over which I have no influence serves no end that I can see.
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Old 20-10-2013, 13:54   #52
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

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Sigh. The pacific garbage patch is mostly below the surface. And the trash breaks down over time. Even plastic.
Most plastics will break up, but live on as tiny bits... for hundreds of years maybe. These bits are entering the food chain now.
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Old 20-10-2013, 13:55   #53
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
I've been saying this for years. My 1st wife and I decided on only one child because of this. When you look at all of humanities sufferings and problems, it comes down to population.
and I none..A mexican fellow once asked why I had no kids,when I told him why all he said in return was"what are you going to do when you are old and you dont have a son to ask for a glass of water"? ..Good question!
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Old 20-10-2013, 14:02   #54
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

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Originally Posted by tropicalescape View Post
and I none..A mexican fellow once asked why I had no kids,when I told him why all he said in return was"what are you going to do when you are old and you dont have a son to ask for a glass of water"? ..Good question!
This is the thing= overfishing,pollution.
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Old 20-10-2013, 14:11   #55
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

Ivan MacFadyen's observations appear correct to me.

I had the pleasure of conversing with Ivan during breaks of work preparing our respective boats for this years Transpac race. I found him remarkably frank and to the point with conversation.

There were several boats in the Transpac fleet that received damage due to debris in the ocean, The Trimaran going for a world record hit items not once but twice, large enough to cause extensive damage.

Most boats in the 2013 Transpac and 2012 Pacific Cup racing fleets reported large quantities of "seen" debris and I saw way too much myself both races.

Can anyone on this board actually say with conviction that fishing in any capacity within the ocean is better today than when you were a child or much, much younger? I for one can attest to the dwindling fishing results as OVERFISHING "IS" taking its toll on the oceans of the earth.

I will say the Ocean is GIANT, there are fish, just not in the abundant readily available fisheries that once existed. Bring in the reality of science and observation that large quantities of debris is and continues to wash-up on beaches and atolls throughout the globe at alarming amounts, people need to WAKE-UP and realize their behaviors are and will continue to effect the worlds oceans.

I am truly saddened by these harsh realities and knowing there is no way to escape the human toll being created, does tenure my desire to get out there and see the destruction for myself on these relatively hmm unspoiled beaches, really, WHERE?

When friends send pictures back from atolls in the south pacific ocean where no human actually lives and the beaches are covered with plastics and other debris, should be a red flag to the humans causing this trash induced tragedy.

I would say that Ivan's article only was to publicly raise his hand and let others know what he saw out there. Based upon my personal conversations with him I found him to be honest and forthright with his opinion, not tending to fluff his existence. Again, this was during preparations for racing in the prestigious Transpac race with all the pomp and circumstance going on at the starting line for the race. He seemed very modest to me and not one to puff his own feathers.

We do need to be ambassadors of the ocean, if not us in the cruising world, then who? We are the only ones actually getting out on the water and seeing the destruction of the ocean life for ourselves.

OK, rant over!
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Old 20-10-2013, 14:11   #56
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

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Originally Posted by europaflyer View Post
Overfishing? That's because there are too many people. Not a problem exclusive to the third or first world, but one which applies to humanity in general.
Actually,the factory-ship fishing is somewhat fussy about what they catch, and as the article indicated there's a huge by-catch that is simply tossed. Not to mention the devastation wreaked on the sea-bed.

So the fishing problem isn't overpopulation, it's fishing without serious oversight or planning, to satisfy today's demands without a thought for the future of the fishery. Simply count all the fisheries that have collapsed after overfishing.

The solution is global planning and regulation, unfortunately... something which seems impossible at the moment.
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Old 20-10-2013, 14:16   #57
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

Thank you Feral Cat...
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Old 20-10-2013, 14:19   #58
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

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Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
Thank you Feral Cat...
Ditto that.
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Old 20-10-2013, 19:05   #59
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

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Most plastics will break up, but live on as tiny bits... for hundreds of years maybe. These bits are entering the food chain now.
Reminds me of some Youtube videos I watched a while back (did a quick search but couldn't find them)...

Couple of younger college age kids went out with an older guy on an eviro-action type sail to the pacific garbage patch. They had listened to his story's of a patch "the size of texas" and were expecting to see allot of big trash.

When they arrived, they were quite disappointed as they were seeing very little trash... just a few floating things (this was before Fukushima). However, when they started running their sampling kits, they were finding alot of small particles of plastics in the water. Both from degrading objects as well as spills from plastic beads shipped to manufacturing plants.

Majority of it was pretty small. Visible but definitely fish food size.
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Old 20-10-2013, 19:20   #60
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Re: The Ocean is broken...

Quote: Midway Atoll, in common with all the Hawaiian Islands, receives substantial amounts of marine debris from the Great Pacific Garbage Patch. Consisting of ninety percent plastic, this debris accumulates on the beaches of Midway. This garbage represents a hazard to the bird population of the island. Twenty tons of plastic debris washes up on Midway every year with five tons of that debris being fed to Albatross chicks.[29] The U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service estimates at least 100 lbs of plastic washes up every week.[30] End Quote

So twenty tons washes up on the beach every year -- 40000 pounds if short tons and 44000 pounds if long tons.

And at least 100 pounds washes up every week (52 weeks per year) or 5200 pounds per year.

So which is it...

A big disparity in estimates. What else is wrong with the data?
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